Venison Hot Dog Issue
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ToddDSheppard I think that your temp schedule is too high and rendered out all of you fat. Also, how was your emulsion? How high of a temp did it get while mixing? If it gets too high then your fat will start smearing and could not bind very well. Did you grind it all 5 times one after another? If you did then you most likely overheated your meat and the fat smeared. I would recommend putting it back in the freezer between each grind. This will keep it nice and cool. 5 grinds seem a little obsessive? I’ve done some with 2 grinds and without using a food processor and they came out great, but with more texture. Also, using some kind of binder should help. I would recommend never going above 45F during mixing. My cooking schedule these days is to use the smoker to set the wieners and for adding the smoke and then I finish them off with a sous-vide @ 160F for 45-60min. This prevents overcooking and speeds up the process. I would recommend doing small batches until you get the hang of it. I hope my ramblings help!
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low and slow is always the best way for good results
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Definitely too hot and a lack of binder.
Fat will start to flow around 162’ish. We start at 135 and step up 10 degrees every hour with 165 being the final smokehouse temp.
The Department of Agriculture requires 155 degrees for a final internal temp which was actually lowered from 156 awhile back.
Binder is a must in wieners. Mustard flour is what we use although carrot fiber or Non Fat Dry Milk (sausage NFD milk NOT Carnation) will work. The binder helps hold in the moisture.
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I think you have a couple issues at hand here, first you should’ve used a binder, second too much total water and if you didn’t chill the meat in between grinds then like someone else said you probably got the meat to warm during your process. But a #29 grinder plate (https://www.waltonsinc.com/300-x-29-triumph-plate) would be a good investment. I’d only grind 3 times, using the plates you currently have for your first 2 and the #29 plate for your 3rd and final grind. The last issue I believe you had was your cook schedule, it was too hot to soon, you really want to start low and step it up until you reach an internal temp of 160.
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Definitely too hot and a lack of binder.
Fat will start to flow around 162’ish. We start at 135 and step up 10 degrees every hour with 165 being the final smokehouse temp.
The Department of Agriculture requires 155 degrees for a final internal temp which was actually lowered from 156 awhile back.
Binder is a must in wieners. Mustard flour is what we use although carrot fiber or Non Fat Dry Milk (sausage NFD milk NOT Carnation) will work. The binder helps hold in the moisture.
The Brat Barn …very interesting, using mustard flour as a binder…how much would one use per lb/kg and does it impart an overwhelming mustard flavor or just hang out in the back of the flavor profile.
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Thanks Guys!! This was the first attempt with the new equipment. I will have to try another round.
ToddDSheppard agreed with everyone, that smoke schedule can kill you. I did a batch using 12 lbs 80/20 ground beef, 6 lbs boneless skinless chicken thighs, and 7 lbs pork back fat and used sure gel as my binder along with about 48 oz water and they turned out awesome! Especially when my smoker only goes down to 150, started it there with the meat already loaded so it helped the slower process…
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I have not made hot dogs as of yet, but I sure want to. I will have some venison this fall, so this has been a very informative thread - Thank You!
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Thanks for sharing your experience. I had an almost identical experience a month ago. I also used the Bearded Butcher recipe except I used 10 lbs venison, 2.5 lbs fat. The other ingredients were proportionally identical. I had left a package of pork fat in the fridge for several days since I knew I was going to be using it and it was spoiled when I got it out so i ended up using 1lb pork fat and 1.5lb beef fat. I initially blamed some of it on the beef fat but from what you are describing it sounds about identical to my results. Also done on traeger with similar smoke schedule.
Mine also had an extremely strong (untasteful) smoke flavor. I would have used 2 oz of the Walton’s Hickory smoke powder in my 12.5 lbs of meat per the Bearded Butcher recipe which I later discovered is about 4 times the amount recommended on the package. I’m assuming they must have used something less potent.
This was my first attempt at hot dogs, lots of very useful info in this thread. I’m thinking of trying again, using a binder and trying to Sous Vide them since I’m using a cellulose casing and they are not benefiting from the smoke anyway. -
ToddDSheppard I think that your temp schedule is too high and rendered out all of you fat. Also, how was your emulsion? How high of a temp did it get while mixing? If it gets too high then your fat will start smearing and could not bind very well. Did you grind it all 5 times one after another? If you did then you most likely overheated your meat and the fat smeared. I would recommend putting it back in the freezer between each grind. This will keep it nice and cool. 5 grinds seem a little obsessive? I’ve done some with 2 grinds and without using a food processor and they came out great, but with more texture. Also, using some kind of binder should help. I would recommend never going above 45F during mixing. My cooking schedule these days is to use the smoker to set the wieners and for adding the smoke and then I finish them off with a sous-vide @ 160F for 45-60min. This prevents overcooking and speeds up the process. I would recommend doing small batches until you get the hang of it. I hope my ramblings help!
Pivodog Do you put the hot dogs in bags prior to the sous vide process? Then, ice bath, remove from bags, and re-bag?
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Thank you very much!! I have ordered my sous vide equipment so next week I should be trying again.
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I was feeling pretty discouraged after my first attempt but this thread got me motivated to try again. I did a 5lb test batch last weekend using 4lbs venison, 1lb pork fat. I used the Excalibur hot dog and Bologna seasoning this time along with sure gel and cheddar cheese. My XXL doesn’t go below 150 so I put them on the top shelf above the snack sticks and summer sausage I was doing. I took them to 120-130 and then dropped them into 170 degree water (Electric roaster) It took about 20 minutes to get to 160 then ice bath. I couldn’t believe it but they turned out amazing!
Best of luck to you ToddDSheppard ! -
Pivodog - Perfect. I ordered an Anova. Looking forward to it.
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slyoder That’s awesome! This is what Meatgistics is all about! Pics when you get a chance? Also, how do you like your XXL? I’m loving ours but I am trying to learn the heat patterns near the back wall. I actually burned some jerky that way.
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I was feeling pretty discouraged after my first attempt but this thread got me motivated to try again. I did a 5lb test batch last weekend using 4lbs venison, 1lb pork fat. I used the Excalibur hot dog and Bologna seasoning this time along with sure gel and cheddar cheese. My XXL doesn’t go below 150 so I put them on the top shelf above the snack sticks and summer sausage I was doing. I took them to 120-130 and then dropped them into 170 degree water (Electric roaster) It took about 20 minutes to get to 160 then ice bath. I couldn’t believe it but they turned out amazing!
Best of luck to you ToddDSheppard !slyoder your giving me hope.
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I was feeling pretty discouraged after my first attempt but this thread got me motivated to try again. I did a 5lb test batch last weekend using 4lbs venison, 1lb pork fat. I used the Excalibur hot dog and Bologna seasoning this time along with sure gel and cheddar cheese. My XXL doesn’t go below 150 so I put them on the top shelf above the snack sticks and summer sausage I was doing. I took them to 120-130 and then dropped them into 170 degree water (Electric roaster) It took about 20 minutes to get to 160 then ice bath. I couldn’t believe it but they turned out amazing!
Best of luck to you ToddDSheppard ! -
Jonathon I’m still learning on my XXL but I really like it so far. It doesn’t cook quite as even as I was hoping it would. Back wall is definitely hotter with the back left corner being the hottest on mine. The nice thing about the XXL is the racks are so easy to pull out and rotate to help even the cooking.
I don’t have very good pics of the finished products but here is what I have
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This is a good post. I am still on the fence as to a replacement for my Bradley smoker. The more you guys are using the XXL Camp Chef the more promise it is showing. I was all hot and bothered to get a Pitts and Spitts with sidebox but the sidebox is kinds small. Now I’m back to the PK 100 or maybe the XXL Camp Chef. Also still thinking about making a homemade one out of a 40s era fridge that I can get. I really want to try hotdogs now too…lol! This site may cause me to spend lots of $$$.
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