Venison Hot Dog Issue
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Did you use a binder?
To me 2 quarts plus 8 oz. total of water sounds like a lot -
I did not. I was following their recipe. I have Sure gel, but didn’t add any. Should I have used it?
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Found their recipe and was surprised no binder was called for
2.5 lbs. of ice for the total water content may have worked for them without a binder
I would have used it especially when adding more water
I have found out the hard way too much water is a major cause of “fat out” and holes in sausage -
Have no clue but sounds like the meat to fat ratio is off? 22 to 5 sounds like it would make a dry product in the sausage world
Ozgrams said in Venison Hot Dog Issue:
Have no clue but sounds like the meat to fat ratio is off? 22 to 5 sounds like it would make a dry product in the sausage world
That puts you right at 80/20 lean to fat, which might be ok for a snack stick but a hot dog could probably use a bit more fat.
The combined ice and water content sounds excessive to me as well and agree a binder of some sort would help.
The fat rendering out you are seeing is due to too high a temperature. For wieners and sausages, you may have trouble regulating temperatures low enough on a Traeger style pellet grill.
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Thanks Guys!! This was the first attempt with the new equipment. I will have to try another round.
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Thanks Guys!! This was the first attempt with the new equipment. I will have to try another round.
ToddDSheppard
If at first… -
ToddDSheppard I think that your temp schedule is too high and rendered out all of you fat. Also, how was your emulsion? How high of a temp did it get while mixing? If it gets too high then your fat will start smearing and could not bind very well. Did you grind it all 5 times one after another? If you did then you most likely overheated your meat and the fat smeared. I would recommend putting it back in the freezer between each grind. This will keep it nice and cool. 5 grinds seem a little obsessive? I’ve done some with 2 grinds and without using a food processor and they came out great, but with more texture. Also, using some kind of binder should help. I would recommend never going above 45F during mixing. My cooking schedule these days is to use the smoker to set the wieners and for adding the smoke and then I finish them off with a sous-vide @ 160F for 45-60min. This prevents overcooking and speeds up the process. I would recommend doing small batches until you get the hang of it. I hope my ramblings help!
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low and slow is always the best way for good results
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Definitely too hot and a lack of binder.
Fat will start to flow around 162’ish. We start at 135 and step up 10 degrees every hour with 165 being the final smokehouse temp.
The Department of Agriculture requires 155 degrees for a final internal temp which was actually lowered from 156 awhile back.
Binder is a must in wieners. Mustard flour is what we use although carrot fiber or Non Fat Dry Milk (sausage NFD milk NOT Carnation) will work. The binder helps hold in the moisture.
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I think you have a couple issues at hand here, first you should’ve used a binder, second too much total water and if you didn’t chill the meat in between grinds then like someone else said you probably got the meat to warm during your process. But a #29 grinder plate (https://www.waltonsinc.com/300-x-29-triumph-plate) would be a good investment. I’d only grind 3 times, using the plates you currently have for your first 2 and the #29 plate for your 3rd and final grind. The last issue I believe you had was your cook schedule, it was too hot to soon, you really want to start low and step it up until you reach an internal temp of 160.
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Definitely too hot and a lack of binder.
Fat will start to flow around 162’ish. We start at 135 and step up 10 degrees every hour with 165 being the final smokehouse temp.
The Department of Agriculture requires 155 degrees for a final internal temp which was actually lowered from 156 awhile back.
Binder is a must in wieners. Mustard flour is what we use although carrot fiber or Non Fat Dry Milk (sausage NFD milk NOT Carnation) will work. The binder helps hold in the moisture.
The Brat Barn …very interesting, using mustard flour as a binder…how much would one use per lb/kg and does it impart an overwhelming mustard flavor or just hang out in the back of the flavor profile.
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Thanks Guys!! This was the first attempt with the new equipment. I will have to try another round.
ToddDSheppard agreed with everyone, that smoke schedule can kill you. I did a batch using 12 lbs 80/20 ground beef, 6 lbs boneless skinless chicken thighs, and 7 lbs pork back fat and used sure gel as my binder along with about 48 oz water and they turned out awesome! Especially when my smoker only goes down to 150, started it there with the meat already loaded so it helped the slower process…
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I have not made hot dogs as of yet, but I sure want to. I will have some venison this fall, so this has been a very informative thread - Thank You!
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Thanks for sharing your experience. I had an almost identical experience a month ago. I also used the Bearded Butcher recipe except I used 10 lbs venison, 2.5 lbs fat. The other ingredients were proportionally identical. I had left a package of pork fat in the fridge for several days since I knew I was going to be using it and it was spoiled when I got it out so i ended up using 1lb pork fat and 1.5lb beef fat. I initially blamed some of it on the beef fat but from what you are describing it sounds about identical to my results. Also done on traeger with similar smoke schedule.
Mine also had an extremely strong (untasteful) smoke flavor. I would have used 2 oz of the Walton’s Hickory smoke powder in my 12.5 lbs of meat per the Bearded Butcher recipe which I later discovered is about 4 times the amount recommended on the package. I’m assuming they must have used something less potent.
This was my first attempt at hot dogs, lots of very useful info in this thread. I’m thinking of trying again, using a binder and trying to Sous Vide them since I’m using a cellulose casing and they are not benefiting from the smoke anyway. -
ToddDSheppard I think that your temp schedule is too high and rendered out all of you fat. Also, how was your emulsion? How high of a temp did it get while mixing? If it gets too high then your fat will start smearing and could not bind very well. Did you grind it all 5 times one after another? If you did then you most likely overheated your meat and the fat smeared. I would recommend putting it back in the freezer between each grind. This will keep it nice and cool. 5 grinds seem a little obsessive? I’ve done some with 2 grinds and without using a food processor and they came out great, but with more texture. Also, using some kind of binder should help. I would recommend never going above 45F during mixing. My cooking schedule these days is to use the smoker to set the wieners and for adding the smoke and then I finish them off with a sous-vide @ 160F for 45-60min. This prevents overcooking and speeds up the process. I would recommend doing small batches until you get the hang of it. I hope my ramblings help!
Pivodog Do you put the hot dogs in bags prior to the sous vide process? Then, ice bath, remove from bags, and re-bag?
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Thank you very much!! I have ordered my sous vide equipment so next week I should be trying again.
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I was feeling pretty discouraged after my first attempt but this thread got me motivated to try again. I did a 5lb test batch last weekend using 4lbs venison, 1lb pork fat. I used the Excalibur hot dog and Bologna seasoning this time along with sure gel and cheddar cheese. My XXL doesn’t go below 150 so I put them on the top shelf above the snack sticks and summer sausage I was doing. I took them to 120-130 and then dropped them into 170 degree water (Electric roaster) It took about 20 minutes to get to 160 then ice bath. I couldn’t believe it but they turned out amazing!
Best of luck to you ToddDSheppard !
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