how does cure with ECA protect meat before its released
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I guess it seems to be the cure is at work first, even tough it was recently added to the meat.
Maybe the ECA comes in second at 130-140 degrees to rob the bad guys of any energy they have left?
Is that right?nolannn said in how does cure with ECA protect meat before its released:
I guess it seems to be the cure is at work first, even tough it was recently added to the meat.
Maybe the ECA comes in second at 130-140 degrees to rob the bad guys of any energy they have left?
Is that right?ECA works as a cure accelerant, so it makes the cure release nitrous oxide faster than the cure would just on its own.
Many sources say its fine to use cure #1 powder in sausage, stuff and smoke right away. Others will say to hold it overnight
The citric acid in ECA does lower the pH of the meat and inhibits bacterial growth.
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I guess it seems to be the cure is at work first, even tough it was recently added to the meat.
Maybe the ECA comes in second at 130-140 degrees to rob the bad guys of any energy they have left?
Is that right?nolannn as processhead said in his response ECA is an “accelerant”. It speeds up the curing process while in the cooking stage, basically doing what it does if you left it refrigerated for 12 hours. Yes the sure cure starts working as soon as you add it to the meat. Next time you do a batch look at the meat when you first mix, then look at the remnants of meat in your mixing tote after stuffing. You should notice the meat will turn brownish. That is the cure doing what it needs to do, however still need to give it time to work without the ECA " accelerant" added.
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Sorry, but I just cannot accept that ECA is a cure accelerant it releases too late into the heat/cook cycle to help. To call it and addition to cure as a meat preservative, sure that would be a more acceptable term. Cure’s # 1 & 2 work through bacterial action and when ECA is released at 135 minimum the meat’s positive bacterial action is pretty much done at that point, exception being bad bacteria, spoilage. This the exact reason why country ham and all the long term meats with cure #2 have to be cold smoked or no heat added so that the meat’s bacteria is not killed thus allowing the cure to continue to work months afterwards. What ECA does is allow the cure to do its job and then when being cooked the ECA is released lowering the PH of the meat thereby reducing the meats chance of spoilage even more than cure alone. Acidity, lack of moisture, salt, sugar, smoke are all enemies of spoilage and ECA adds to the acidity of the meat.
Can you add plain citric acid at the start of your meat processing cycle and get a cure boost, absolutely, but once you are cooking it is just too late. The phosphates work in the opposite direction, but both of the additives are trying to get the meat away from its native PH, attempting to avoid spoilage. Sorry if I have step on toes, but I am just not seeing the science.
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Cure begins working the minute you mix it in the meat(stopping bacteria growth). It takes 24 hours to take full effect unless you add citric acid. As long as the cure is done by the time you put the finished product in the ice bath you are good to go. Do not use non encapsulated acid in your mix! You will not be happy. It changes the Protein extraction and makes the sausage crumbly, may cause fat out and affects the absorption of smoke. I use ECA to give summer sausage more tang and since I have the time let it sit overnight in the cooler, add the ECA in the morning, stuff and smoke.
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If it takes 24 hours for the cure to be done yet can be smoked immediately in a dark warm smoker when the meat is still moist. The ECA only begins its work after the meat is 130 degrees.
If the cure hasn’t sat the time it needs to work and encapsulation has kept the CA from working til 130, what’s up?
I believe there’s got to be an answer.Maybe the citric acid weakens what grows and the cure doesn’t have to be at full strength after The CA is released because the bacteria is weak.
I’m just guessing -
nolannn said in how does cure with ECA protect meat before its released:
But nothing really stops the growth till then?
The salt added to the meat works to inhibit bacterial growth. Salt works by drawing water out of the protein and also draws water through the cell walls of any bacteria that might be present.
The changes in available water disrupts the bacteria so they can’t multiply quickly, even in a smoker, and makes the meat a less hospitable place for them to grow.
Paul
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nolannn said in how does cure with ECA protect meat before its released:
But nothing really stops the growth till then?
The salt added to the meat works to inhibit bacterial growth. Salt works by drawing water out of the protein and also draws water through the cell walls of any bacteria that might be present.
The changes in available water disrupts the bacteria so they can’t multiply quickly, even in a smoker, and makes the meat a less hospitable place for them to grow.
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If it takes 24 hours for the cure to be done yet can be smoked immediately in a dark warm smoker when the meat is still moist. The ECA only begins its work after the meat is 130 degrees.
If the cure hasn’t sat the time it needs to work and encapsulation has kept the CA from working til 130, what’s up?
I believe there’s got to be an answer.Maybe the citric acid weakens what grows and the cure doesn’t have to be at full strength after The CA is released because the bacteria is weak.
I’m just guessingnolannn said in how does cure with ECA protect meat before its released:
Maybe the citric acid weakens what grows and the cure doesn’t have to be at full strength after The CA is released because the bacteria is weak.
I’m just guessingCitric acid works as a cure accelerator, ECA works by lowering the PH of the final meat product. The bacteria does not get weak, we change the environment to unfavorable when we add cure, salt, sugar, citric acid, ECA, smoke, and a lack of moisture thus limiting its ability to reproduce.
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This link sheds some more light on curing meat and how cure accelerators work with cure at higher temperatures. Most of the effect relates to fixing the color of the product and not the preservative qualities.
Take note of the comments on page 2 about how that the primary preservative in meat curing is salt and the sodium nitrite performs a follow up role in preventing botulism and enhancing flavor and color.
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This link sheds some more light on curing meat and how cure accelerators work with cure at higher temperatures. Most of the effect relates to fixing the color of the product and not the preservative qualities.
Take note of the comments on page 2 about how that the primary preservative in meat curing is salt and the sodium nitrite performs a follow up role in preventing botulism and enhancing flavor and color.
processhead That is a great article!
Short, to the point and clearly understandable.
I like the way it brings the curing process into smoking
Saved to my sausage file -
Here’s another link with basically the same info but in a slide presentation.
https://www.depts.ttu.edu/meatscience/docs/14._Curing___Smoking.pptx -
nolannn said in how does cure with ECA protect meat before its released:
But nothing really stops the growth till then?
The salt added to the meat works to inhibit bacterial growth. Salt works by drawing water out of the protein and also draws water through the cell walls of any bacteria that might be present.
The changes in available water disrupts the bacteria so they can’t multiply quickly, even in a smoker, and makes the meat a less hospitable place for them to grow.
processhead Never heard “cure” discussed in that way. Very good explanation teacher.
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nolannn said in how does cure with ECA protect meat before its released:
But nothing really stops the growth till then?
The salt added to the meat works to inhibit bacterial growth. Salt works by drawing water out of the protein and also draws water through the cell walls of any bacteria that might be present.
The changes in available water disrupts the bacteria so they can’t multiply quickly, even in a smoker, and makes the meat a less hospitable place for them to grow.
processhead Jonathan Austin I selected the up vote and it turned it to a -1 only on this thread. Now, for some reason, I can’t change it. So, the up vote should be a +1 and not a -1. In the details when I select the -1 it shows there’s 1 down vote. I could select other and different threads and perform an up vote. Probably just a system quirk.
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processhead Jonathan Austin I selected the up vote and it turned it to a -1 only on this thread. Now, for some reason, I can’t change it. So, the up vote should be a +1 and not a -1. In the details when I select the -1 it shows there’s 1 down vote. I could select other and different threads and perform an up vote. Probably just a system quirk.
zbigjeff said in how does cure with ECA protect meat before its released:
processhead Jonathan Austin I selected the up vote and it turned it to a -1 only on this thread. Now, for some reason, I can’t change it. So, the up vote should be a +1 and not a -1. In the details when I select the -1 it shows there’s 1 down vote. I could select other and different threads and perform an up vote. Probably just a system quirk.
A week or so ago several of us discovered we had inadvertently downvoted some posts. You can change them if you go to your profile.
Paul
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zbigjeff said in how does cure with ECA protect meat before its released:
processhead Jonathan Austin I selected the up vote and it turned it to a -1 only on this thread. Now, for some reason, I can’t change it. So, the up vote should be a +1 and not a -1. In the details when I select the -1 it shows there’s 1 down vote. I could select other and different threads and perform an up vote. Probably just a system quirk.
A week or so ago several of us discovered we had inadvertently downvoted some posts. You can change them if you go to your profile.
processhead Yep, was able to do it there. Thanks.
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nolannn I’ll do a post on this later, I asked this question of our application specialist on a podcast or live stream a few months ago and he gave me an answer I didn’t understand. Clearly, there are still lots of unanswered questions on the mechanism that makes the meat safe during the smoking process. I will try to get a more detailed answer and either post or do a live stream on it.
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nolannn I’ll do a post on this later, I asked this question of our application specialist on a podcast or live stream a few months ago and he gave me an answer I didn’t understand. Clearly, there are still lots of unanswered questions on the mechanism that makes the meat safe during the smoking process. I will try to get a more detailed answer and either post or do a live stream on it.
Jonathon
If ECA controls bacteria by drawing out moisture and making the meat unfavorable, then how dry do my snack sticks have to be. At 165 they aren’t super dry.
How much ECM is needed. Waltons ECA called foe 4 oc per 25 lbs. PS Seasoning is 2-10 oz per 100 lbs. If im using ECA so the meat can go in the smoker soon after mixing the cure and spices. what is the minimum.I know one thing. 4 oz per 25 lbs is too strong for me. I tried it on sticks before and it seems to compete with the seasoning. 3 oz per 25 lbs tasted better.
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Jonathon
If ECA controls bacteria by drawing out moisture and making the meat unfavorable, then how dry do my snack sticks have to be. At 165 they aren’t super dry.
How much ECM is needed. Waltons ECA called foe 4 oc per 25 lbs. PS Seasoning is 2-10 oz per 100 lbs. If im using ECA so the meat can go in the smoker soon after mixing the cure and spices. what is the minimum.I know one thing. 4 oz per 25 lbs is too strong for me. I tried it on sticks before and it seems to compete with the seasoning. 3 oz per 25 lbs tasted better.
nolannn said in how does cure with ECA protect meat before its released:
Jonathon
If ECA controls bacteria by drawing out moisture and making the meat unfavorable, then how dry do my snack sticks have to be. At 165 they aren’t super dry.
How much ECM is needed. Waltons ECA called foe 4 oc per 25 lbs. PS Seasoning is 2-10 oz per 100 lbs. If im using ECA so the meat can go in the smoker soon after mixing the cure and spices. what is the minimum.I know one thing. 4 oz per 25 lbs is too strong for me. I tried it on sticks before and it seems to compete with the seasoning. 3 oz per 25 lbs tasted better.
You may be confusing the way ECA and salt control bacteria growth. Salt is the ingredient that draws moisture from the meat and from from the cell walls of harmful bacteria. ECA on the other hand can help control bacteria growth by lowering the pH of the meat, which acts to slow the growth of bacteria.
I have noticed a lack of consistency in the amount of ECA required for sausage depending on where you get it. Different suppliers will recommend using different amounts.
Another thing to be aware of with ECA is because you are using such a small amount relative to the amount of meat, you need to make sure it gets evenly dispersed through out the meat. One little clump of ECA that is unevenly mixed in your meat can mean some of your sausage will be very sour and some not at all.
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