Jonathon
If ECA controls bacteria by drawing out moisture and making the meat unfavorable, then how dry do my snack sticks have to be. At 165 they aren’t super dry.
How much ECM is needed. Waltons ECA called foe 4 oc per 25 lbs. PS Seasoning is 2-10 oz per 100 lbs. If im using ECA so the meat can go in the smoker soon after mixing the cure and spices. what is the minimum.

I know one thing. 4 oz per 25 lbs is too strong for me. I tried it on sticks before and it seems to compete with the seasoning. 3 oz per 25 lbs tasted better.

You may be confusing the way ECA and salt control bacteria growth. Salt is the ingredient that draws moisture from the meat and from from the cell walls of harmful bacteria. ECA on the other hand can help control bacteria growth by lowering the pH of the meat, which acts to slow the growth of bacteria.

I have noticed a lack of consistency in the amount of ECA required for sausage depending on where you get it. Different suppliers will recommend using different amounts.

Another thing to be aware of with ECA is because you are using such a small amount relative to the amount of meat, you need to make sure it gets evenly dispersed through out the meat. One little clump of ECA that is unevenly mixed in your meat can mean some of your sausage will be very sour and some not at all.

I know one thing. 4 oz per 25 lbs is too strong for me. I tried it on sticks before and it seems to compete with the seasoning. 3 oz per 25 lbs tasted better.

processhead Jonathan Austin I selected the up vote and it turned it to a -1 only on this thread. Now, for some reason, I can’t change it. So, the up vote should be a +1 and not a -1. In the details when I select the -1 it shows there’s 1 down vote. I could select other and different threads and perform an up vote. Probably just a system quirk.

A week or so ago several of us discovered we had inadvertently downvoted some posts. You can change them if you go to your profile.

Take note of the comments on page 2 about how that the primary preservative in meat curing is salt and the sodium nitrite performs a follow up role in preventing botulism and enhancing flavor and color.

https://shareok.org/bitstream/handle/11244/49985/oksd_ansi_3994_2015-07.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y#:~:text=The most frequently used cure,the pickle and its effectiveness.

Maybe the citric acid weakens what grows and the cure doesn’t have to be at full strength after The CA is released because the bacteria is weak.
I’m just guessing

Citric acid works as a cure accelerator, ECA works by lowering the PH of the final meat product. The bacteria does not get weak, we change the environment to unfavorable when we add cure, salt, sugar, citric acid, ECA, smoke, and a lack of moisture thus limiting its ability to reproduce.

But nothing really stops the growth till then?

The salt added to the meat works to inhibit bacterial growth. Salt works by drawing water out of the protein and also draws water through the cell walls of any bacteria that might be present.

The changes in available water disrupts the bacteria so they can’t multiply quickly, even in a smoker, and makes the meat a less hospitable place for them to grow.

Maybe the citric acid weakens what grows and the cure doesn’t have to be at full strength after The CA is released because the bacteria is weak.
I’m just guessing

Can you add plain citric acid at the start of your meat processing cycle and get a cure boost, absolutely, but once you are cooking it is just too late. The phosphates work in the opposite direction, but both of the additives are trying to get the meat away from its native PH, attempting to avoid spoilage. Sorry if I have step on toes, but I am just not seeing the science.

I guess it seems to be the cure is at work first, even tough it was recently added to the meat.
Maybe the ECA comes in second at 130-140 degrees to rob the bad guys of any energy they have left?
Is that right?

ECA works as a cure accelerant, so it makes the cure release nitrous oxide faster than the cure would just on its own.

Many sources say its fine to use cure #1 powder in sausage, stuff and smoke right away. Others will say to hold it overnight

The citric acid in ECA does lower the pH of the meat and inhibits bacterial growth.