Cured Sausage: 205 Advanced Thermal Processing

[Jonathon]

Screamin No, the one you dont have in a bag will have dirtect contact with the water where the ones in a bag might have a little air around them. What I would do is to have a single sausage in a bag as a “tester” and seal that bag all the way at the end. Take it out after 45 minutes or so, cut the bag right next to the seal and temp it, reseal it right back at the top and so on and so forth until you have reached your goal.

If your question was more about can you use the temp of one to say the rest are all done too, then…kind of, there might be a few mitigating factors but as long as you are doing this for your personal enjoyment and not selling them that should be fine.

I did not do anything special between smoking and vac sealing and cooking in the water.

Parksider Other than telling him there is no reason to use a bag, is there anything else you would recommend? Screamin Just FYI parksider has been doing this for years and doesn’t use a bag!

[Parksider]

Screamin Jonathon My brother and I were just talking about this again… I think part of the reason we don’t see an issue is that we smoke heavy. We use stick wood smokers not pellet or sawdust. So… I think that’s why we don’t see a fall off on the flavor. That being said once the smoke is driven into the meat, ususally a 4 hour max, that’s all the smoke meat will generally take, i’m not sure that it would impact the overall flavor. Other than wasting bags I don’t see any other reason. BTW we’ve been doing this for decades or four generations that we know of, handed down family recipes.

[tarp]

Great article. I’m sitting here laughing because when I lived on the “road” as and airline pilot we would sometimes layover in and older downtown hotel, that still had the wall room heaters. In winter it would make your nose bleed in the mornings with no humility in the room… The wick method is what I used to put some in the room and it worked. that’s before those portable small humidifiers which still are to big to carry around.
Just bought a couple big SS restaurant pans to try out this way of finishing the product. 11$ each at a swap meet…
Sausage here I come.LOL

[Screamin]

I just received my order from Walton’s and since reading Meatgistics, these products should cure many of my past problems. However, I have a couple questions.
-I am using pork shoulder, but I have been trimming off the thick fat on the bottom and not grinding into the sausage mix. Do others include this fat in the grind or remove? My concern is that I may be disrupting my fat content.
-I have been adding Jalapenos to the meat after grinding and before stuffing, same with pineapple. . However, I have not been drying them. Just draining, blotting and adding to the meat. Is this the proper way to add this stuff or should they be dried. Have heard opinions both ways, but I don’t think those I’m talking to know any more than I do which is a problem. Need some expert advise.
-I received Carrot Fiber with my order. However, the “Usage” says 1.59 oz up to 3.59 oz per batch. What is the batch size? How much should I use for 5#
-After smoking the sausage, cooling, overnight in the fridge, left out for an hour and vacuum pack, I notice some moisture on the brats when opening the vacuum bag to eat. Does this present a possible mold problem and if so, what should I change to prevent?
Thank you so much for your time. This is a really great site, can’t say enough good.
As for my other question below, I have decided to go with the experts and not vacuum pack when finishing in the 170 degree bath. Thanks for that advise.

[craigrice]

Screamin the fat content is a variable 80/20-70/30 is in the range but it is a matter of preference but fat in the proper amount is flavor there have been many discussions on this from what I have read dried additives work better waltons has a Hawaiian /pineapple seasoning and many others that might get you closer to what you are trying to get to.

[Jonathon]

Screamin Pineapple I would absolutely recommend you dry, it contains bromelain which could be an issue as it will break down the proteins surrounding it. For Jalapenos that isn’t as much of a concern but I do still use dried flakes when I am adding it to sausage. If you have fresh jalapenos you could blanch them and then dry them out just to be safe.

Use carrot fiber at the 4 oz to 25 lb batch, her is the link to the Additive Chart but basically use .8 oz per 5 lb batch.

Yes, if you are getting a lot of moisture inside a vacuum package it can spoil the meat more quickly. You could add a longer drying phase, or check the humidity in the cooler you are holding it, sometimes holding it too long actually adds more moisture back into the sausage.

[Screamin]

OK, I gave it a try and appears I’m not as smart as I look!! I made three 1 lb batches to try some stuff and did not turn out well. My first time with Carrot Binder, Sure Cure, Hickory Smoke and Chili Dog Seasoning. I usually smoke and this is my first time using the water cook.
Here’s what I did
-I made 3- 1 lb batches, all of which contained 1 tbsn & 2 tspn Carrot Binder,
1/4 tsp (4 oz) Sure Cure Pink
-All were cooked in water, starting temp around 140 and up to 175.
-All were tossed into ice water when they reached 160
-All were done at the same time on the same oven top and heat measured constantly with a digital probe.
Batch 1. Added 1/2 Tsp Hickory Smoke, 3 oz of water and Callagen Casing.
Result: Really bad. Casing fell off, what casings stayed on had water in them and when I removed the lose casings, the meat was done on the inside but some had what looked like raw meat next to the casing. After they cooled were really dry and looked bad. Will probably grind and add to chili. Appeared to have spots of grease on the outside.
Batch 2. Added Chili Dog Seasoning and Callagen casing with 4 oz of water. These appear OK and taste pretty good and casings stayed on. Still kind of dry, but OK
Batch 3. Added some Summer Sausage Seasoning I had laying around and added per the package for 1#. Also added Hickory Smoke Seasoning and used Mahogany Summer Sausage Casing. The casing is not tight at all, meat loose in the casing. Meat appears to be done, but very tender and very moist.

I suspect the water added and the cooking is the problem. Usually I would just try again, but with the Walton World insight and at the risk of really looking stupid, what happened?

[Jonathon]

Screamin It sounds like you went right to the water? That would be the issue for sure. Sorry if it wasn’t more clear, what we were referring to was smoking/cooking until the internal temp of the sausage (or really anything else) reaches 130° and THEN finishing it in water. I tested the same thing you did a few times with snack sticks trying to see if I could make it work and I hade the exactl same experience that you did.

Again, sorry if we weren’t more clear on that! So smoke till 130 or so and then finish in water.

[Screamin]

Jonathon Not Walton’s fault at all, I have done enough of this that I should have known better. However, I am new to the Meat Binder products. Most recipes and bagged additives advise how much water to use. If using the Carrot Fiber, do you just use the water is recommended or, given you have the fiber, do you up the water content. If yes, is there a rule of thumb how much?

[Jonathon]

Screamin I don’t add any extra water to mine. If I am making a cured sausage I go with 2 pints/pounds of water to a 25 lb batch. However, it can hold up to 26 times its weight in water so you could if you wanted to increase your yield or how much moisture was in your sausage. If you are adding carrot fiber you could get away with 3 pints per 25 lb batch but I wouldnt go more than that!

[Parksider]

Screamin I’ll throw one more out there, I like to mix the spice into the water with a wisk then drizzle onto the meat while it’s mixing. Pepper especially will pick up the water, I don’t want it to drawl moisture out of the meat. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t…just a best practice that works for me. Try it for yourself.

[Jonathon]

Parksider I’ve said this somewhere else but my grandmother was an all time great cook. Seriously, she was amazing and she taught all the women and the interested men in my extended family how to cook but noone could ever make a recipe EXACTLY like hers. It wasn’t until after she died and we were splitting up her recipe book that we compared notes and realized she gave everyone 90% of her recipes but held stuff back!

That’s what you are reminding me of with this “season the water” comment! Just kidding, sounds good and I shall try that on my next batch of whatever I am making!

[Screamin]

Thanks for the insight, really appreciate your time and expertise. Going to give it another try asap.

[Parksider]

Jonathon FYI, I’ve never held back anything or not answered questions about processing…now, maybe I don’t remember to tell you something-may be an effect of the tall, domestic, and light beverage consumption!

[Screamin]

Well, I put all my theories aside and did just what you folks suggested. Slow baked in oven, summer sausage seasoning with Waltons Hickory Smoke Seasoning and Carrot fiber. Gradually increased the temp and ended up with my best summer sausage to date. The casing was a little wrinkled, but taste and texture was great. Also did some hot dogs with the Chili Dog seasoning and some Carrot Fiber, another success. The Chili Dog Seasoning is really great. Thank for all the support.

[PapaSop]

What does one do when your bored and it’s too cold outside… Apparently you think about humidity. Decided to try my own wet/dry bulb experiment. Although very crude the results were surprising. Found a how to on this from the UW Madison extension office. Wish I’d copied the link.

Found a psychrometer app to do the math. Lost my slide rule. Was surprised the results were pretty close. Set this up near a humidifier so there was some air movement over it. May try this in the smoker as a test as well.

Now you know what cold weather and a cold beer leads to.

[caryfr5]

Parksider Lol! the beverage consumtion is half the fun!

[Jonathon]

PapaSop So, I just saw your post and man does that deserve a round of applause. Have you used that for anything?

[PapaSop]

Jonathon
Wow. So long ago. Not given it much thought until the recent posts regarding the jerky stuff. Still think about once in awhile. Wisconsin winter’s make you do weird stuff. Humidity is the key! Limited to what us home processers can do. Work in progress.

[YooperDog]

PapaSop I would head down to Chippewa Falls to the Leinenkugels brewery and check for free samples, maybe tip a few at their sampling taps. Hopefully they are open during this C-19 season.