Kielbasa too salty to eat
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It’s my understanding that cure #1 doesn’t activate till smoking / cooking. Protects the meat from bacteria growth during slow or cold smoking. Flash grilling / smoking does not require it, but does enhance the color to pink instead of gray during cooking. Cure#2 is necessary for fermented product only. It enhances good bat growth during the fermentation. I always mix with water first, but add cheese last (frozen). Just my opine
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It’s my understanding that cure #1 doesn’t activate till smoking / cooking. Protects the meat from bacteria growth during slow or cold smoking. Flash grilling / smoking does not require it, but does enhance the color to pink instead of gray during cooking. Cure#2 is necessary for fermented product only. It enhances good bat growth during the fermentation. I always mix with water first, but add cheese last (frozen). Just my opine
JoeB said in Kielbasa too salty to eat:
It’s my understanding that cure #1 doesn’t activate till smoking / cooking. Protects the meat from bacteria growth during slow or cold smoking.
Curing regularly takes place at low temperatures. It is common to cure meat at refrigerator-temperatures, and this is regularly done to hams, bacon, and sausage.
One of the benefits of curing meat is that bacterial growth is inhibited when the meat temperature is raised to the “danger zone”, between 40 degrees and 140 degrees, i.e. when smoking.
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No contest processhead . I think we are saying the same thing from different perspectives. Curing meat is not synonymous with cure#1. One is a process and the other is an additive that prevents the botulinum toxin. Salt is the big guy here. That being said, I was referencing flash cooking vs cold smoking. To my understanding when bacterial growth is not a problem it’s not necessary, but doesn’t hurt and does help color during cooking. as you know Insta Cure #1 is a specialty formulated mixture of Salt and Sodium Nitrite. Nitrites are necessary to prevent the botulinum toxin (Chlostridium botulinum) from growing in Low & Slow Smoked/Cooked Sausages, Bacon, Hams, and alike. The lower than normal temperatures and longer cooking process in the bacterial is a danger zone especially in smoked foods.
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No contest processhead . I think we are saying the same thing from different perspectives. Curing meat is not synonymous with cure#1. One is a process and the other is an additive that prevents the botulinum toxin. Salt is the big guy here. That being said, I was referencing flash cooking vs cold smoking. To my understanding when bacterial growth is not a problem it’s not necessary, but doesn’t hurt and does help color during cooking. as you know Insta Cure #1 is a specialty formulated mixture of Salt and Sodium Nitrite. Nitrites are necessary to prevent the botulinum toxin (Chlostridium botulinum) from growing in Low & Slow Smoked/Cooked Sausages, Bacon, Hams, and alike. The lower than normal temperatures and longer cooking process in the bacterial is a danger zone especially in smoked foods.
JoeB you are referring to ECA and smoked meat stabilizer. The sure cure, pink cure salts works during its 12 hour refrigerator time before smoking. The ECA and smoked meat stabilizer doesnt start to work until a certain temperature during the cooking process
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Sorry I don’t use ECA or smoke meat stabilizer. I am referring to the sodium nitrite that uses the pink colored salt as a medium called cure#1 i.e. insta cure. But I know what your saying… Thanks. Nitrate is a whole different animal. It was also mixed in the raw ground meat in butcher shops to turn the meat red for looks. 18-1900’s Now, outlawed for a long time in most countries.
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This is a fresh sausage right? do you even need any cure?
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No not necessary, unless you slow or cold smoke. I do use it in my fresh sausage because I don’t know what someone will do with it or how they will cook it after I give it to them. Just a safety thing.
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When using prepackaged pork I take into account the salt that was added to the meat for more water/weight.
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Glen, for the most part “prepackaged”, you’re working with an unknown. For me it’s best to use B.O. pork butts or chuck roll. Very few limitations on preprocessed meat. FTA will allow 50% water in cold cuts and processed meat. That’s why cold cuts get slimy after a few days… water is coming out and the additives can’t hold it in
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Right about the unknown, but if the OP used grocery pre-packed pork the salt they put in the package solution may be responsible for the too salty outcome
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Good thoughts, Always go back to the basics. The Romans had none of these wonderful additives. Just wild pig and a few spices … And lots, lots of wine. Romans never drank beer because it was considered barbaric since the Celts drank it. Romans drank wine. Their wine was always laced with water as it is not in their culture to drink wine straight. Romans drank calda during the winter. This is wine mixed with warm water and laced with spices. They would catch, butcher wild pigs, use their intestines’ for sausage casings and cook over an open fire. Premixed packs were no place to be found. Amazon delivery was limited by geographic location at that time
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Adam, do these packets include salt… Not familiar with them. Most I’ve seen salt and cure are added. Good advice
JoeB Yes there is salt in the seasoning mixture and if its supposed to be a cured product the cure is in a separate packet.
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Thanks Adam, I’ve seen the pre-packets before just never used them. Doesn’t that kind of tie your hands to someone else’s taste buds ?
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Thanks Adam, I’ve seen the pre-packets before just never used them. Doesn’t that kind of tie your hands to someone else’s taste buds ?
JoeB That’s one way to look at it, or you can look at the ease of use for most of us home processors who got into this later in life. My grandfather made his own sausage but has long since been gone and no one else in the family does it so when I decided a few years ago to start making my own I really didn’t have an idea of where to start. The prepackaged seasonings I buy from Walton’s is perfect for me and as I’ve gotten more experienced I can make adjustments based on my own taste. I can add more spices or change the ratio of seasoning to meat to make subtle changes to the flavor of the end product. There are some seasonings that I make just as they are intended to be made and then there are others that I use the seasoning package as a base/starting point and make it my own.
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JoeB So, the reason we suggest that people use pre-packaged seasonings are what AdamCA says above but also because it removes the single biggest issue in troubleshooting someones sausage problems. It doesn’t happen often but when someone comes here looking for help on a sausage problem and they used a “home-made” recipe that is simply what I will point to (unless there is some glaring obvious thing like didnt add any water) as the likely culrpit because it almost always is. Very often the problem is the salt content, either way too little or too much. Salt plays functional roles in meat processing beyond flavor. Excalibur has been doing this for decades and those are the exact same seasonings and spices that professional meat processors purchase from us. Yes, some of them, and some home people do make homemade recipes and they very well might be delicious but in general it is better and easier to use prepackaged seasonings from Excalibur.
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JoeB So, the reason we suggest that people use pre-packaged seasonings are what AdamCA says above but also because it removes the single biggest issue in troubleshooting someones sausage problems. It doesn’t happen often but when someone comes here looking for help on a sausage problem and they used a “home-made” recipe that is simply what I will point to (unless there is some glaring obvious thing like didnt add any water) as the likely culrpit because it almost always is. Very often the problem is the salt content, either way too little or too much. Salt plays functional roles in meat processing beyond flavor. Excalibur has been doing this for decades and those are the exact same seasonings and spices that professional meat processors purchase from us. Yes, some of them, and some home people do make homemade recipes and they very well might be delicious but in general it is better and easier to use prepackaged seasonings from Excalibur.
Jonathon No contest… Everyone has their own approach, and favorite tools. If prepacks work for you than so be it. There are a lot of variables in the art of making sausage, and processing meats, as you know. I guess I was blessed with having a Father that taught me the basics over 65 years ago, and I lived within walking distance of Rytek Kutas when he finally settled down in Buffalo NY opening the first SausageMaker storefront. There is no doubt that salt is the big guy in sausage making, and again I agree. Usually has to do with inaccurate measurement or weight and table salt instead of coarse sea salt. That all being said, it is interesting to note that great sausage isn’t great sausage if it doesn’t taste the way you remember your past experiences with a particular sausage. I could go on but I’m just blathering. Spent 8+ years in Europe, each town (Dorf), and region had their own taste and recipe for beer and Brats. Now I’ll sit back, as I should, and enjoy this wonderful, enlightening, and informative site. I appreciate your tolerance, and do think this is a great site. Thanks Jonathon.
PS: I an not responsible for my computer’s grammar or spelling errors -
Jonathon No contest… Everyone has their own approach, and favorite tools. If prepacks work for you than so be it. There are a lot of variables in the art of making sausage, and processing meats, as you know. I guess I was blessed with having a Father that taught me the basics over 65 years ago, and I lived within walking distance of Rytek Kutas when he finally settled down in Buffalo NY opening the first SausageMaker storefront. There is no doubt that salt is the big guy in sausage making, and again I agree. Usually has to do with inaccurate measurement or weight and table salt instead of coarse sea salt. That all being said, it is interesting to note that great sausage isn’t great sausage if it doesn’t taste the way you remember your past experiences with a particular sausage. I could go on but I’m just blathering. Spent 8+ years in Europe, each town (Dorf), and region had their own taste and recipe for beer and Brats. Now I’ll sit back, as I should, and enjoy this wonderful, enlightening, and informative site. I appreciate your tolerance, and do think this is a great site. Thanks Jonathon.
PS: I an not responsible for my computer’s grammar or spelling errorsJoeB I think you summed it up well. I have many recipes that I’ve used for years, and I use many pre packaged because I love their flavors ( not that I don’t still try to break their recipe). I’m not afraid to use the chemistry of sodium nitrate and nitrite as well as other potassium salts. Some of my recipes come from the early part of the 1900’s and other from recent sources. I don’t use a premix if I have to alter them. I wish that the prepackaged were salt free and suggested an addition of salt quantity. I do like to control that. I do recognize that people have to use what they are comfortable with and that have the proper equipment to measure properly. You are so correct in stating that salt measurement can easily be a factor of the particle size. I always stick to the same type and brand to reduce variability.
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JoeB I think you summed it up well. I have many recipes that I’ve used for years, and I use many pre packaged because I love their flavors ( not that I don’t still try to break their recipe). I’m not afraid to use the chemistry of sodium nitrate and nitrite as well as other potassium salts. Some of my recipes come from the early part of the 1900’s and other from recent sources. I don’t use a premix if I have to alter them. I wish that the prepackaged were salt free and suggested an addition of salt quantity. I do like to control that. I do recognize that people have to use what they are comfortable with and that have the proper equipment to measure properly. You are so correct in stating that salt measurement can easily be a factor of the particle size. I always stick to the same type and brand to reduce variability.
Chef , I appreciate your comments, and clarity. Breaking down a recipe isn’t that hard . This site: https://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage-making and his book: Home Production of Quality Meats and Sausages Paperback – Illustrated, March 21, 2012 is a great read. It does break down the norms and tolerances for spices and seasonings (2-3pgs of listings). The site is international and covers just about everything meat, and alcohol
Lots, and Lots of whys, not so much how to’s. The spirit of the author is to teach you how to make sausage not read recipes, but the wisdom to spot a good or bad recipe, and why to use metric, not imperial. Rytek Kutas’ auto-bio is a great read as he walks you thru the failures and successes of a sausage maker and how he acquired his recipes throughout his life. Culminating in his efforts for the Sausagemaker business. Sad ending. When I visit the East coast I make 50lbs of brats for their taste, For what they think brats taste like. When i travel to the Left Coast i retool my polish sausage for what they think is a traditional Kielbasa taste… When it comes to Bulgogi, I take into consideration what region of South East Asia they’re from. It is what it is… Cheers
PS: I an not responsible for my computer’s grammar or spelling errors
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