Thank you thank you thank you!

How much Sure Gel does one use for making hot dogs and snack sticks 5 lbs batches

Thank you

Thank you Jonathon! I really appreciate all your help!

What is the best binder to use for wild game summer sausage, snack sticks and hot dogs? I have been looking at the sure gel and carrot fiber but not sure of pros and cons. Thank you!

twilliams said in 1st smoking concerns:

North 2 qt water for 25lbs of meat block
1 qt water for 12.5lbs of meat block, so for 10 lbs i would do 3/4 qt.

Not sure what you have for a smoker but on your smoke schedule i dont see any mention of dampers or smoke if you are adding it. Your first hour of 125° you want both top and bottom dampers wide open. This is called the drying stage and this will help smoke adhere to the casing.

After that hour dampers need to be adjusted, bottom 50% closed and top 1/8" open. Continue with your schedule as you specified.

What i can suggest is, do not compare your batches to other processors. They may not and most likely will not come out the same as theirs. Assuming the processors have been doing it for years and have much better equipment and process than what we home guys can put out.

I have a master built electric smoker. I used a fireboard thermometer.

I had a waterbath as well dampers at least half if not more for the whole smoking process.

twilliams said in 1st smoking concerns:

North also are you making a 12.5 batch or 10lb batch?

10lb would be 7.5 lbs elk and 2.5lbs pork fat

12.5 lbs you may be a bit light as 25% of 12.5 is 3.125 pork fat

9.375 lb elk and 3.125 lbs pork fat is you 12.5 lb meat block

I did 10lbs elk and 2.5 pork fat

Jonathon said in 1st smoking concerns:

North I don’t think your problem was the water amount, 2.5 lb for a 10 lb batch sounds in the realm of what I would do. Your fat content is right at about 80% so no worries there.

The grainy thing you were talking about and the fact that it didn’t feel firm leads me to believe that you had a temperature issue. The Encapsulated Citric Acid needs to be above 130° for at least an hour for the cottonseed oil to fully dissolve if it doesn’t you can notice a graininess to the meat. And, if it wasn’t firm, well that could be because the meat wasn’t cooked long enough at higher temps (meaning that the meat wasn’t at high enough temp long enough, not your smoker)

What thermometer were you using and how long did it take to get to 160° at 175?

One thing though you said in a response to twilliams about 12 hours ago figure about 9 pm last night (while I was fast asleep!) that you added 3 more pints of water during the mixing process, so would this be 5.5 pints of water? If so then that would be too much, a snack stick or summer sausage is a semi-dried sausage so to get the classic meat consistency and mouth feel (still hate that term) you need to cook out the majority of the water you add in. So, the more you add the longer your cook cycle is going to take as there is more water to evaporate out of your product. That is important because evaporation energy is what causes “the stall” where your meat just won’t go up in temperature because the evaporation energy is meeting (or exceeding) the thermal energy from your smoker.

Good afternoon Jonathon, I am going to be trying another batch and wanted to reach out to you and the group before doing so. I was doing 10lbs of elk and 2.5 pork fat. Is this would you would do or cut back on the fat. I would rather have less fat but I really want it to turn out better like we would get from the processor.

I thought I was following the snack sticks and summer sausage recipes that I watched on Walton’s YouTube videos. Here is the Heat Schedule that I was trying to follow: ***Smoke Times
1 hour @ 125 Degrees
1 hour @ 140 Degrees
2 hours @ 155 Degrees
Set the smokehouse at 175 degrees until internal temperature reaches 160 degrees

• I am using the fireboard for a thermometer as well a master built electric smoker

*my total smoke time was 7/8 hours to reach 160 for both snack sticks and sausage

*I was reading your response in regards to the water and I was adding a half pint every time mixing got a little tough. It could be that I added too much water and just did not cook it long enough.

Could you help me out to put together the proper schedule and mixture of elk to fat. as well I did not use a binder. I am going to be ordering some which would you suggest using? I have been doing a little reaching and just want to make sure I am using the right binder. The binder is not going to change the texture of the meat as this last batch did not have a bite to it.

Thank you again for all your help!

akdave I ground the elk and fat at the same time doing a 3/8 inch grind first and then an 1/8. I think through it all in a hand mixer that I have from Cabelas and added spices. Mixed one min in each direction for 8 minutes. The last minute I add high temp cheese and ECA

twilliams I used a total of 2.5 pints of water for 10 lbs of elk and 2.5 lbs pork fat

twilliams I definitly agree on the protein extraction, I think that after grinding mixing and stuffing the meat might have been too warm. I have been doing a little reading and they said that hand mixing you may have to do double the time? Also I added about 3 pints of water during the mixing process as it got harder and harder to mix which adding a half pint of water every so often helped

twilliams I followed the waltons youtube recipe for both and the only things I added was the sure cure and ECA as a binder was not mentioned in the video

Good evening all! Well I opened up the sausage casings as well as cut the snack sticks to length. During the process things I noticed… The snack sticks had areas of soft (I am assuming clear fat as well as areas with yellow soldi fat build up. I took those skins off and took the fat off. The summer sausage was alright after taking the skins off now here is the one thing that I guess I am missing. The snack sticks as well as the summer sausage do not feel firm as when I would purchase it from a processor… Also when I bite into either snack stick or summer sausage the bite is not what I would get from a processor. It doesnt taste like I am biting into firm meat but a softer texture and or gritty feeling maybe? Thoughts on this? Thank you again for all your help!

Thank you for all your comments! I used an hand mixer and and was going for what I thought was strong mixing. When it got tough to mix I added some water to make the mixing easier. I just watch The Importance of Protein Extraction on youtube and my snack sticks definitely have the look in my snack sticks of fat out… Was I wrong to keep adding water to make mixing easier? after I added the high temp cheese and ECA the last minute I didnt add water. My mix was very sticky but as Jonathon stated in the video maybe I needed to be hand mixing for 16 minutes instead of 8? Is the meat edible? or should I just get rid of it?

Jonathon said in 1st smoking concerns:

Schrodinger’s cat anyone

Thank you Jonathon,

***I did use a hand meat blender and I blended for 8 minutes rotating the direction after each minutes as well adding appropriate water.
***I added the ECA the last minute of mixing along with the high temp cheese
***My meat block in both was 10 pounds elk and 2.5 pounds pork fat caps
***As far as the smoke schedule I watched the youtube videos on both the summer sausage and snack sticks and followed the smoke schedule from them
***The sausage and snack still are in the fridge now I am going to cut one of the casings open tonight to take a look.

What might be your thoughts after this info?

Good morning all,

So I attempted my first smoking of Venison and pork summer sausage and snack sticks. Two things that occurred once finished.

1. After the the smoke and water bath I noticed that the summer sausage wrinkled a little bit and feeling the casings it seemed like there was in the pockets? (I have yet to open one up) The snack sticks did not wrinkle but you could tell in the air pocket areas there was some clear slim I am assuming fat?
2. I noticed in both the summer sausage and snack sticks the casing did not stick in some spots.
3. After taking them out of the smoker and waterbath both the summer and snack sticks casings were very greasy to the point where after cutting the snack sticks to size my finger tips were greasy which I am assuming from fat?

I used H-Summer with high temp cheese and jalapeno with sure cure and ECA for summer and for snack I used Willies with high temp cheese and jalapeno with sure cure and ECA.

As soon as I stuffed the sausage and snack sticks I put it in the smoker and let it do its thing.

Smoke times:
125 - 1 hour
140 - 1 hour
155 - 2 hours
175 - until both the sausage and snack sticks reached 160 degrees

I am really debating on throwing it all away as it is so greasy to the touch? Anyone have an idea as to if I did something wrong?

Thank you for your time!

Thank you all for your time in responding thats what I thought but I wanted to make sure before I ruined something…

Good morning all, I am going to be smoking some summer sausage and some snack sticks and had a question regarding the Sure Cure and Encapsulated Citric Acid.

1. Should you use both?
2. If you don’t use Encapsulated Citric Acid you have to let it rest for 24 hours?
3. If I use Encapsulated Citric Acid do I have to smoke the meat right away or can I wait the 24 hours?

Thank you for your help!

How much Jalapeno Flakes should one use when making Summer Sausage and or hot sticks. Per pound?

Thank you for the help!

Jonathon Austin Thank you for the information, very helpful… Maybe you can give me a little more assistance based on your reply… My elk by the way was an archery 6x7 bull and field dressed weight was 560lbs.

Summer Sausage. So I am used to our summer sausage made with whole mustard seed and garlic which was kind of the standard. Then we had either made another batch with cheddar and jalapeno to kick it up a bit. So I am looking for I guess a standard base seasoning that would taste great alone as well to add off with. After reading all the review the Tons and H Summer was what I thought I would use as a base. I guess my question to you would be since you are an employee which would you rather have as a base flavor in all your sausage? What would be the flavor profile difference that stands out to you?

Breakfast links: my family usually orders a maple breakfast sausage so I was thinking the maple flavor as the kids would not be into the hot… Something sweet for breakfast is typically their go to. I might just have to add some apple bacon or some pure maple syrup to the mix?

Hot Dogs: As far as the hot dogs go my wife and I go to this German restaurant that serves a Cranberry pork sausage as well an Apple Sausage she really enjoys. My Mother and Father enjoy just plain cheddar in their dogs so that was my reasoning behind those flavors. I didn’t see just a regular hot dog seasoning could you lead me to it!?

Snack Sticks: Typically my dad and I make just regular sausage snack sticks which I would use the (Tons or H summer) and then add Cheddar to some as well cheddar and jalapeno to spice it up a bit. I noticed the Gigawatt which might be too hot for most however I enjoy some heat. I would rather have heat over too sweet of a snack stick… I did notice the Willie’s and thought of using that as a base however if I ordered the Tons Summer sausage then I would just use that as a base? Again flavor profiles between those very different? Thoughts?

As far as the salt goes I completely understand you meaning as to the cured meats. Is there anything you can see as far as the breakfast sausages or hot dogs go that might have too salty of a flavor as I am just going to use natural casings and then freeze. I haven’t decided if I would smoke first and then freeze the breakfast and hot dogs as of yet. The summer sausage and snack sticks I just expect it…

One last question, after mixing the spices with your seasonings do I have to let them sit over night or for a certain period of time before stuffing. Some kits you have to let the meat sit for 12 hours or so. Thought I would ask as I want to start timing out everything…

Thank you once again for all your help!

I am going to be making Summer Sausage, Breakfast Sausage, Hot Dogs and Snack sticks and trying to figure out what seasonings to go with.

Right now I am thinking:
Summer Sausage:
*H Summer Sausage spice (with and without Jalapeno and Cheddar)
*Tons Summer Unit ((with and without Jalapeno and Cheddar)

Breakfast Sausage:
*Maple Flavored Pork

Hot Dogs:
*Apple Bratwurst
*Cranberry flavored
or
*H Summer sausage or Tons Summer Unit with some cheddar???

Snack Sticks:
Gigawatt Hot or jalapeno cheddar
and just cheddar

What are your thoughts on flavors. I am just really worried about the salt content not a big salt person…

Thank you for your help!!!