1st smoking concerns
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twilliams I definitly agree on the protein extraction, I think that after grinding mixing and stuffing the meat might have been too warm. I have been doing a little reading and they said that hand mixing you may have to do double the time? Also I added about 3 pints of water during the mixing process as it got harder and harder to mix which adding a half pint of water every so often helped
North how much total water did you add for how many pounds? I use 2 quarts for a 25lb batch. Sure gel or soy protein is a meat binder. Although i haven’t used it yet and haven’t needed it on summer sausage or snack sticks. However i am making ring bologna soon and gonna give the sure gel a try. It not only helps bind the meat but also helps retain moisture
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twilliams I definitly agree on the protein extraction, I think that after grinding mixing and stuffing the meat might have been too warm. I have been doing a little reading and they said that hand mixing you may have to do double the time? Also I added about 3 pints of water during the mixing process as it got harder and harder to mix which adding a half pint of water every so often helped
North they should have a binder use video somewhere in the meatgistics forum
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I find that grinding my fat, in your case the pork 1/8" first then grind the meat, the elk 3/8" then thoroughly mix the two together and then grind the mix 1/8" really helps blending the two and protein extraction, then I thoroughly mix the spices, binder and cure with the water, about 1 quart or so and then thoroughly mix that in the ground meat. For my summer sausage I use 20lb lean game meat, 5lb beef fat trim, 1lb binder, 2 quarts water, cure and spices and stuff as tight as possible in 73MM mahogany collagen casing. I have also found that an automatic hog ring crimper is very helpful in closing up the casings.
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North how much total water did you add for how many pounds? I use 2 quarts for a 25lb batch. Sure gel or soy protein is a meat binder. Although i haven’t used it yet and haven’t needed it on summer sausage or snack sticks. However i am making ring bologna soon and gonna give the sure gel a try. It not only helps bind the meat but also helps retain moisture
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I find that grinding my fat, in your case the pork 1/8" first then grind the meat, the elk 3/8" then thoroughly mix the two together and then grind the mix 1/8" really helps blending the two and protein extraction, then I thoroughly mix the spices, binder and cure with the water, about 1 quart or so and then thoroughly mix that in the ground meat. For my summer sausage I use 20lb lean game meat, 5lb beef fat trim, 1lb binder, 2 quarts water, cure and spices and stuff as tight as possible in 73MM mahogany collagen casing. I have also found that an automatic hog ring crimper is very helpful in closing up the casings.
akdave I ground the elk and fat at the same time doing a 3/8 inch grind first and then an 1/8. I think through it all in a hand mixer that I have from Cabelas and added spices. Mixed one min in each direction for 8 minutes. The last minute I add high temp cheese and ECA
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North I don’t think your problem was the water amount, 2.5 lb for a 10 lb batch sounds in the realm of what I would do. Your fat content is right at about 80% so no worries there.
The grainy thing you were talking about and the fact that it didn’t feel firm leads me to believe that you had a temperature issue. The Encapsulated Citric Acid needs to be above 130° for at least an hour for the cottonseed oil to fully dissolve if it doesn’t you can notice a graininess to the meat. And, if it wasn’t firm, well that could be because the meat wasn’t cooked long enough at higher temps (meaning that the meat wasn’t at high enough temp long enough, not your smoker)
What thermometer were you using and how long did it take to get to 160° at 175?
One thing though you said in a response to twilliams about 12 hours ago figure about 9 pm last night (while I was fast asleep!) that you added 3 more pints of water during the mixing process, so would this be 5.5 pints of water? If so then that would be too much, a snack stick or summer sausage is a semi-dried sausage so to get the classic meat consistency and mouth feel (still hate that term) you need to cook out the majority of the water you add in. So, the more you add the longer your cook cycle is going to take as there is more water to evaporate out of your product. That is important because evaporation energy is what causes “the stall” where your meat just won’t go up in temperature because the evaporation energy is meeting (or exceeding) the thermal energy from your smoker.
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North I don’t think your problem was the water amount, 2.5 lb for a 10 lb batch sounds in the realm of what I would do. Your fat content is right at about 80% so no worries there.
The grainy thing you were talking about and the fact that it didn’t feel firm leads me to believe that you had a temperature issue. The Encapsulated Citric Acid needs to be above 130° for at least an hour for the cottonseed oil to fully dissolve if it doesn’t you can notice a graininess to the meat. And, if it wasn’t firm, well that could be because the meat wasn’t cooked long enough at higher temps (meaning that the meat wasn’t at high enough temp long enough, not your smoker)
What thermometer were you using and how long did it take to get to 160° at 175?
One thing though you said in a response to twilliams about 12 hours ago figure about 9 pm last night (while I was fast asleep!) that you added 3 more pints of water during the mixing process, so would this be 5.5 pints of water? If so then that would be too much, a snack stick or summer sausage is a semi-dried sausage so to get the classic meat consistency and mouth feel (still hate that term) you need to cook out the majority of the water you add in. So, the more you add the longer your cook cycle is going to take as there is more water to evaporate out of your product. That is important because evaporation energy is what causes “the stall” where your meat just won’t go up in temperature because the evaporation energy is meeting (or exceeding) the thermal energy from your smoker.
Jonathon said in 1st smoking concerns:
North I don’t think your problem was the water amount, 2.5 lb for a 10 lb batch sounds in the realm of what I would do. Your fat content is right at about 80% so no worries there.
The grainy thing you were talking about and the fact that it didn’t feel firm leads me to believe that you had a temperature issue. The Encapsulated Citric Acid needs to be above 130° for at least an hour for the cottonseed oil to fully dissolve if it doesn’t you can notice a graininess to the meat. And, if it wasn’t firm, well that could be because the meat wasn’t cooked long enough at higher temps (meaning that the meat wasn’t at high enough temp long enough, not your smoker)
What thermometer were you using and how long did it take to get to 160° at 175?
One thing though you said in a response to twilliams about 12 hours ago figure about 9 pm last night (while I was fast asleep!) that you added 3 more pints of water during the mixing process, so would this be 5.5 pints of water? If so then that would be too much, a snack stick or summer sausage is a semi-dried sausage so to get the classic meat consistency and mouth feel (still hate that term) you need to cook out the majority of the water you add in. So, the more you add the longer your cook cycle is going to take as there is more water to evaporate out of your product. That is important because evaporation energy is what causes “the stall” where your meat just won’t go up in temperature because the evaporation energy is meeting (or exceeding) the thermal energy from your smoker.
Good afternoon Jonathon, I am going to be trying another batch and wanted to reach out to you and the group before doing so. I was doing 10lbs of elk and 2.5 pork fat. Is this would you would do or cut back on the fat. I would rather have less fat but I really want it to turn out better like we would get from the processor.
I thought I was following the snack sticks and summer sausage recipes that I watched on Walton’s YouTube videos. Here is the Heat Schedule that I was trying to follow: ***Smoke Times
1 hour @ 125 Degrees
1 hour @ 140 Degrees
2 hours @ 155 Degrees
Set the smokehouse at 175 degrees until internal temperature reaches 160 degrees- I am using the fireboard for a thermometer as well a master built electric smoker
*my total smoke time was 7/8 hours to reach 160 for both snack sticks and sausage
*I was reading your response in regards to the water and I was adding a half pint every time mixing got a little tough. It could be that I added too much water and just did not cook it long enough.
Could you help me out to put together the proper schedule and mixture of elk to fat. as well I did not use a binder. I am going to be ordering some which would you suggest using? I have been doing a little reaching and just want to make sure I am using the right binder. The binder is not going to change the texture of the meat as this last batch did not have a bite to it.
Thank you again for all your help!
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Jonathon said in 1st smoking concerns:
North I don’t think your problem was the water amount, 2.5 lb for a 10 lb batch sounds in the realm of what I would do. Your fat content is right at about 80% so no worries there.
The grainy thing you were talking about and the fact that it didn’t feel firm leads me to believe that you had a temperature issue. The Encapsulated Citric Acid needs to be above 130° for at least an hour for the cottonseed oil to fully dissolve if it doesn’t you can notice a graininess to the meat. And, if it wasn’t firm, well that could be because the meat wasn’t cooked long enough at higher temps (meaning that the meat wasn’t at high enough temp long enough, not your smoker)
What thermometer were you using and how long did it take to get to 160° at 175?
One thing though you said in a response to twilliams about 12 hours ago figure about 9 pm last night (while I was fast asleep!) that you added 3 more pints of water during the mixing process, so would this be 5.5 pints of water? If so then that would be too much, a snack stick or summer sausage is a semi-dried sausage so to get the classic meat consistency and mouth feel (still hate that term) you need to cook out the majority of the water you add in. So, the more you add the longer your cook cycle is going to take as there is more water to evaporate out of your product. That is important because evaporation energy is what causes “the stall” where your meat just won’t go up in temperature because the evaporation energy is meeting (or exceeding) the thermal energy from your smoker.
Good afternoon Jonathon, I am going to be trying another batch and wanted to reach out to you and the group before doing so. I was doing 10lbs of elk and 2.5 pork fat. Is this would you would do or cut back on the fat. I would rather have less fat but I really want it to turn out better like we would get from the processor.
I thought I was following the snack sticks and summer sausage recipes that I watched on Walton’s YouTube videos. Here is the Heat Schedule that I was trying to follow: ***Smoke Times
1 hour @ 125 Degrees
1 hour @ 140 Degrees
2 hours @ 155 Degrees
Set the smokehouse at 175 degrees until internal temperature reaches 160 degrees- I am using the fireboard for a thermometer as well a master built electric smoker
*my total smoke time was 7/8 hours to reach 160 for both snack sticks and sausage
*I was reading your response in regards to the water and I was adding a half pint every time mixing got a little tough. It could be that I added too much water and just did not cook it long enough.
Could you help me out to put together the proper schedule and mixture of elk to fat. as well I did not use a binder. I am going to be ordering some which would you suggest using? I have been doing a little reaching and just want to make sure I am using the right binder. The binder is not going to change the texture of the meat as this last batch did not have a bite to it.
Thank you again for all your help!
North 2 qt water for 25lbs of meat block
1 qt water for 12.5lbs of meat block, so for 10 lbs i would do 3/4 qt.Not sure what you have for a smoker but on your smoke schedule i dont see any mention of dampers or smoke if you are adding it. Your first hour of 125° you want both top and bottom dampers wide open. This is called the drying stage and this will help smoke adhere to the casing.
After that hour dampers need to be adjusted, bottom 50% closed and top 1/8" open. Continue with your schedule as you specified.
What i can suggest is, do not compare your batches to other processors. They may not and most likely will not come out the same as theirs. Assuming the processors have been doing it for years and have much better equipment and process than what we home guys can put out.
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Jonathon said in 1st smoking concerns:
North I don’t think your problem was the water amount, 2.5 lb for a 10 lb batch sounds in the realm of what I would do. Your fat content is right at about 80% so no worries there.
The grainy thing you were talking about and the fact that it didn’t feel firm leads me to believe that you had a temperature issue. The Encapsulated Citric Acid needs to be above 130° for at least an hour for the cottonseed oil to fully dissolve if it doesn’t you can notice a graininess to the meat. And, if it wasn’t firm, well that could be because the meat wasn’t cooked long enough at higher temps (meaning that the meat wasn’t at high enough temp long enough, not your smoker)
What thermometer were you using and how long did it take to get to 160° at 175?
One thing though you said in a response to twilliams about 12 hours ago figure about 9 pm last night (while I was fast asleep!) that you added 3 more pints of water during the mixing process, so would this be 5.5 pints of water? If so then that would be too much, a snack stick or summer sausage is a semi-dried sausage so to get the classic meat consistency and mouth feel (still hate that term) you need to cook out the majority of the water you add in. So, the more you add the longer your cook cycle is going to take as there is more water to evaporate out of your product. That is important because evaporation energy is what causes “the stall” where your meat just won’t go up in temperature because the evaporation energy is meeting (or exceeding) the thermal energy from your smoker.
Good afternoon Jonathon, I am going to be trying another batch and wanted to reach out to you and the group before doing so. I was doing 10lbs of elk and 2.5 pork fat. Is this would you would do or cut back on the fat. I would rather have less fat but I really want it to turn out better like we would get from the processor.
I thought I was following the snack sticks and summer sausage recipes that I watched on Walton’s YouTube videos. Here is the Heat Schedule that I was trying to follow: ***Smoke Times
1 hour @ 125 Degrees
1 hour @ 140 Degrees
2 hours @ 155 Degrees
Set the smokehouse at 175 degrees until internal temperature reaches 160 degrees- I am using the fireboard for a thermometer as well a master built electric smoker
*my total smoke time was 7/8 hours to reach 160 for both snack sticks and sausage
*I was reading your response in regards to the water and I was adding a half pint every time mixing got a little tough. It could be that I added too much water and just did not cook it long enough.
Could you help me out to put together the proper schedule and mixture of elk to fat. as well I did not use a binder. I am going to be ordering some which would you suggest using? I have been doing a little reaching and just want to make sure I am using the right binder. The binder is not going to change the texture of the meat as this last batch did not have a bite to it.
Thank you again for all your help!
North also are you making a 12.5 batch or 10lb batch?
10lb would be 7.5 lbs elk and 2.5lbs pork fat
12.5 lbs you may be a bit light as 25% of 12.5 is 3.125 pork fat
9.375 lb elk and 3.125 lbs pork fat is you 12.5 lb meat block
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North also are you making a 12.5 batch or 10lb batch?
10lb would be 7.5 lbs elk and 2.5lbs pork fat
12.5 lbs you may be a bit light as 25% of 12.5 is 3.125 pork fat
9.375 lb elk and 3.125 lbs pork fat is you 12.5 lb meat block
twilliams said in 1st smoking concerns:
North also are you making a 12.5 batch or 10lb batch?
10lb would be 7.5 lbs elk and 2.5lbs pork fat
12.5 lbs you may be a bit light as 25% of 12.5 is 3.125 pork fat
9.375 lb elk and 3.125 lbs pork fat is you 12.5 lb meat block
I did 10lbs elk and 2.5 pork fat
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North 2 qt water for 25lbs of meat block
1 qt water for 12.5lbs of meat block, so for 10 lbs i would do 3/4 qt.Not sure what you have for a smoker but on your smoke schedule i dont see any mention of dampers or smoke if you are adding it. Your first hour of 125° you want both top and bottom dampers wide open. This is called the drying stage and this will help smoke adhere to the casing.
After that hour dampers need to be adjusted, bottom 50% closed and top 1/8" open. Continue with your schedule as you specified.
What i can suggest is, do not compare your batches to other processors. They may not and most likely will not come out the same as theirs. Assuming the processors have been doing it for years and have much better equipment and process than what we home guys can put out.
twilliams said in 1st smoking concerns:
North 2 qt water for 25lbs of meat block
1 qt water for 12.5lbs of meat block, so for 10 lbs i would do 3/4 qt.Not sure what you have for a smoker but on your smoke schedule i dont see any mention of dampers or smoke if you are adding it. Your first hour of 125° you want both top and bottom dampers wide open. This is called the drying stage and this will help smoke adhere to the casing.
After that hour dampers need to be adjusted, bottom 50% closed and top 1/8" open. Continue with your schedule as you specified.
What i can suggest is, do not compare your batches to other processors. They may not and most likely will not come out the same as theirs. Assuming the processors have been doing it for years and have much better equipment and process than what we home guys can put out.
I have a master built electric smoker. I used a fireboard thermometer.
I had a waterbath as well dampers at least half if not more for the whole smoking process.
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North what twilliams said was spot on. Make sure you are leaving dampers open for that first hour and when you are using wild game you should use Sure Gel meat binder. This will help keep everything where it is supposed to be and prevent it from fatting out.
Your process looks good for everything you have listed. I would point out that you should mix a lot! You are trying to get the fat to mix in with your meat as well as get your meat to extract the proteins so it is really really sticky. For a 12.5 lb batch you can use 1 qt of water or 3/4, the 1 quart might take a little longer to cook. Since you are having a specific problem I would recommend that you use the 3/4. Then if this is a little dryer than you would like you can increase that up to 1 qt.
Im guessing that adding the extra water while mixing was your main issue. Mixing is supposed to be tough and the closer you get to it being mixed enough it will get tougher and tougher. Try it with just the 3/4 qt and see how it goes!
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