Lox or cold smoked salmon
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I have made lox with both white sugar and brown sugar, and the brown sugar is my preference. For cold smoking, my pellet smoke generator will put out the smoke without raising the temperature much when I leave the electric heating element turned off.
I think and A-maz-N tube or maze is a good solution for cold smoking.
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processhead I don’t think you are alone in that, and there is still very much that stigma in the industry. I know labeling a product that has had liquid smoke applied is a challenge for some commercial customers, because of the perception (right or wrong) that applied smoke flavor is not equal to natural smoke.
Now, as far as it “penetrating” I don’t think it would to any significant amount, probably about the same as a normal seasoning, unless mixed with water and injected, tumbled or left to marinate for a while. Fish would probably pick it up better than denser meat like beef or deer.
Jonathon said in Lox or cold smoked salmon--need info:
processhead I don’t think you are alone in that, and there is still very much that stigma in the industry. I know labeling a product that has had liquid smoke applied is a challenge for some commercial customers, because of the perception (right or wrong) that applied smoke flavor is not equal to natural smoke.
Now, as far as it “penetrating” I don’t think it would to any significant amount, probably about the same as a normal seasoning, unless mixed with water and injected, tumbled or left to marinate for a while. Fish would probably pick it up better than denser meat like beef or deer.
Oily fish like salmon definitely take natural wood smoke better than other dryer types of fish. Whether the powered smoke flavorings are as soluble in fish oils as natural wood smoke, I can not say.
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processhead thx for reminding me, Paul. I just ordered it, will get tomorrow. That is a book I intended to get but forgot
Dave in AZ you will not regret buying that book.
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Okay I have no idea about any of this except I bought some off the store shelf and loved it, so that made me want to try it myself. After reading online I bought alder wood since that seems to be the wood of choice and the cure seems to be up to the producers choice what advice do you folks give to a newbie?
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Okay I have no idea about any of this except I bought some off the store shelf and loved it, so that made me want to try it myself. After reading online I bought alder wood since that seems to be the wood of choice and the cure seems to be up to the producers choice what advice do you folks give to a newbie?
mrobisr and others, I read lox and cold smoke recipes today for a couple hours and converted them all to standard units for comparison. The results are…confusing.
- Marianski uses a brine of 80 degree, which is 21% salt, for his cold smoked and hot smoked recipes. In one table he recommends 1 hour brining for both cold and hot smoke for fish 1 in and thinner. However in his cold smoke recipe he actually says to marinate in the 80 degree brine, that is 21% salt by weight, for 6 to 8 hours and then rinse for 1 hour before smoking. This is obviously not a dry rub or equilibrium cure, and leaving it in that extremely strong brine too long will create a very salty recipe, so the disparity between his two recipes of one hour versus 6 to 8 hours is a big problem. But it probably ends up at 3 to 5% in that 1 to 8 hr frame, after a 1hr rinse.
All the other sources used a dry rub or dry brine equilibrium cure for 36 to 72hrs:
2. Kutas in his book recommend a dry rub or dry brine equilibrium cure, his salt to Salmon ratio comes to 5% and his sugar is 5%.
3. Surg in his recipe here on the forums uses 4.5% salt and a very small amount of sugar, about a quarter percent or less.
4. The two most popular recipe returns on Google are from Spruce eats and wholesome yum. Spruce eats uses 4.25% salt and 5% sugar.
5. Wholesome yum uses an incredible 26% salt dry rub. While Marianski uses 21% liquid brine for just 1 to 8 hrs, this one is for 36 hrs!These hugely different final salt content recipes leave me scratching my head. It appears anything from 3 to 5%, don’t know what to think on Wholesome recipe at 26% except bad amount of salmon… 1 lb probably should be 5 lbs.
I have 2 salmon planks in fridge now, and would have done them today if I could decide which of these saltiness amounts to trust! What I need is a report from a data minded user who actually weighed his salmon and salt used, so I can get a real salt % (cups vs grams vs kosher vs table salt can drive a result from 3 to 5%). Then whose report of “THIS was the right amount of salt, not too much or little” I can rely on. At $35 each for the salmon I don’t want to mess it up.
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I have only done a wet brine before which was just kosher salt and brown sugar. After reading this I want to make it all again!
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processhead thx for reminding me, Paul. I just ordered it, will get tomorrow. That is a book I intended to get but forgot
Dave in AZ said in Lox or cold smoked salmon--need info:
processhead thx for reminding me, Paul. I just ordered it, will get tomorrow. That is a book I intended to get but forgot
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I have used both my own recipe as well as a store bought salmon brine mix from Hi Mountain. Both were excellent but also different enough that I have preferences for the usage of the fish after curing. I use maple sugar or turbonado sugar, curing salt #1, and a small amount of sea salt. I toast in a dry cast iron skillet some black peppercorns, fennel seeds, cinnamon stick, and (red or purple) juniper berries. Bring all spices to a boil in water and then add ice to quickly drop the temp to about 65F. I tend to make roughly 2 gallons of brine solution so that I can cover a few sides on Alaskan or preferably Faroe Island salmon. I cover it completely in either a brine bucket with a plate to keep it all submerged, or I use food safe brining bags. Urban Kitchen makes a good inexpensive brine bag. I also like to use skin ON salmon when I cold smoke because it keeps the flesh together much easier during brining and smoking. I don’t cut the skin when I am slicing the lox.
I am in NE Ohio so if I want to cold smoke in the summer, I use a smoke tube like the A-Maze-N tube or maze and I put a foil tray of ice under the salmon. It is super easy to cold smoke when it is cold and then vacuum seal the lox and freeze for summer as well.fallis10 your recipe sounds good, and like you’ve done it enough times to talk about the final saltiness compared to store bought stuff. Can you give your recipe for the brine, amount of salt and sugar per water? Also, how long do you brine the salmon? Thx!
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mrobisr and others, I read lox and cold smoke recipes today for a couple hours and converted them all to standard units for comparison. The results are…confusing.
- Marianski uses a brine of 80 degree, which is 21% salt, for his cold smoked and hot smoked recipes. In one table he recommends 1 hour brining for both cold and hot smoke for fish 1 in and thinner. However in his cold smoke recipe he actually says to marinate in the 80 degree brine, that is 21% salt by weight, for 6 to 8 hours and then rinse for 1 hour before smoking. This is obviously not a dry rub or equilibrium cure, and leaving it in that extremely strong brine too long will create a very salty recipe, so the disparity between his two recipes of one hour versus 6 to 8 hours is a big problem. But it probably ends up at 3 to 5% in that 1 to 8 hr frame, after a 1hr rinse.
All the other sources used a dry rub or dry brine equilibrium cure for 36 to 72hrs:
2. Kutas in his book recommend a dry rub or dry brine equilibrium cure, his salt to Salmon ratio comes to 5% and his sugar is 5%.
3. Surg in his recipe here on the forums uses 4.5% salt and a very small amount of sugar, about a quarter percent or less.
4. The two most popular recipe returns on Google are from Spruce eats and wholesome yum. Spruce eats uses 4.25% salt and 5% sugar.
5. Wholesome yum uses an incredible 26% salt dry rub. While Marianski uses 21% liquid brine for just 1 to 8 hrs, this one is for 36 hrs!These hugely different final salt content recipes leave me scratching my head. It appears anything from 3 to 5%, don’t know what to think on Wholesome recipe at 26% except bad amount of salmon… 1 lb probably should be 5 lbs.
I have 2 salmon planks in fridge now, and would have done them today if I could decide which of these saltiness amounts to trust! What I need is a report from a data minded user who actually weighed his salmon and salt used, so I can get a real salt % (cups vs grams vs kosher vs table salt can drive a result from 3 to 5%). Then whose report of “THIS was the right amount of salt, not too much or little” I can rely on. At $35 each for the salmon I don’t want to mess it up.
Dave in AZ Weeelll, nice analysis of the different methods. Can’t help but wonder the outcome when you go down that rabbit hole. Have fun with the process.
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Dave in AZ Weeelll, nice analysis of the different methods. Can’t help but wonder the outcome when you go down that rabbit hole. Have fun with the process.
zbigjeff my wife wants this for Easter tomorrow, the salmon is in my fridge… I’m gonna have to commit to something soon lol!
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zbigjeff my wife wants this for Easter tomorrow, the salmon is in my fridge… I’m gonna have to commit to something soon lol!
Dave in AZ Weeeelll, I would go what you feel in halfway. Just one suggestion on the temp in Arizona. You could put the salmon on top a grate sitting on an aluminum foil tray filled with ice (like we do when the outside temp is higher for smoking cheese) to keep it as cool as possible for the “cold smoke”. Good luck.
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I went with Marianski’s brine recipe, because I could do both hot smoke for dinner tonight, and lox cold smoke in 8 hrs. The 21% brine, termed 80 degree, lets it penetrate fish in 1hr for hot smoke, 6-8 hrs maaaybe for cold smoke. Depending on which page of his book I trust, the table or the recipe. In any case, the gradient brine is way faster than a 2 to 3 day equilibrium dry brine.
I went with 2 Liters or half gallon of brine because that amount, along with 6 lbs of fish, fits in a 2 gallon ziplock I had, and should have plenty of salt etc to cure the fish, just may take a wee bit longer than a full gallon. But with it being such a strong gradient brine, 21%, and being I’m targeting 4 to 5% salt in fish according to all the equilibrium recipes I converted/standardized/calculated, it should have no problems. The issue with all gradient brines is the timing, pulling it at the riggt time to have to saltiness you desire. Marianski is the only source I found that gave any timing with a gradient brine, so he gets the nod.
Here are the ingredients for 2 L of brine.By the way, using Kroger coarse kosher salt, his non-recommended US volume measure table said 2c salt. To show how poor a method that is for anything involving salt and meat, that was 1/2c too much when I actually weighed it to get thw correct salinity brine. Would have given me almost a 100 degree brine, over the max amount you can dissolve in water, and a strength that Marianski lists numerous poor effects on the fish protein vs. 80 degree result. Moral of story, ALWAYS weigh your salt for sausage and brine!
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fallis10 your recipe sounds good, and like you’ve done it enough times to talk about the final saltiness compared to store bought stuff. Can you give your recipe for the brine, amount of salt and sugar per water? Also, how long do you brine the salmon? Thx!
Dave in AZ Took me a while to find the recipe. It is for a 3# side of salmon
1 gallon water
24 grams sea salt
15 grams maple sugar (can use brown sugar if you like)
4 grams of cure salt #1
The spices are to taste. I don’t measure them honestly. Maybe like a 1/2 cup black peppercorns, 1/4 cup red juniper berries, a couple crushed cinnamon sticks, 1/4 cup fennel seeds, 1/4 cup mustard seed, a handful of whole crushed nutmeg. I crush the peppercorn and nutmeg at separate times in a tea towel. Roast the spices in order of hardiness, with fennel and mustard seed last. Dry skillet, 30-60 second toast for each spice. Keep them moving in the skillet so nothing burns. Boil everything in the water then add ice to get up to the required amount of brine solution. A gallon of water is about 8 pounds or so, so I zero my scale with a brining bucket (or large food safe container) on it then add the brine solution and stir in ice until you have a gallon of water and it reaches about 65-68F. Do not add fish to hot brine. I cure my salmon for 3 days or until the fish becomes pretty rigid. I then soak the salmon for 4-6 hours in distilled water to draw out excess salt then cold smoke. -
Dave in AZ Took me a while to find the recipe. It is for a 3# side of salmon
1 gallon water
24 grams sea salt
15 grams maple sugar (can use brown sugar if you like)
4 grams of cure salt #1
The spices are to taste. I don’t measure them honestly. Maybe like a 1/2 cup black peppercorns, 1/4 cup red juniper berries, a couple crushed cinnamon sticks, 1/4 cup fennel seeds, 1/4 cup mustard seed, a handful of whole crushed nutmeg. I crush the peppercorn and nutmeg at separate times in a tea towel. Roast the spices in order of hardiness, with fennel and mustard seed last. Dry skillet, 30-60 second toast for each spice. Keep them moving in the skillet so nothing burns. Boil everything in the water then add ice to get up to the required amount of brine solution. A gallon of water is about 8 pounds or so, so I zero my scale with a brining bucket (or large food safe container) on it then add the brine solution and stir in ice until you have a gallon of water and it reaches about 65-68F. Do not add fish to hot brine. I cure my salmon for 3 days or until the fish becomes pretty rigid. I then soak the salmon for 4-6 hours in distilled water to draw out excess salt then cold smoke.fallis10 thx much for your recipe! After I took tonight’s hot smoke salmon fromnthe brine, I added 1t each of toasted anise and coriander, crushed, based on you and othee posts.
Your brine just adds another odd datapoint for me to get a handle on this though, as it is less than 1%, only 0.75%, salt. So this makes me think that folks pretty much accept lox from 1% salt to 5% or even 10% or higher on one recipe. It is a huge span of flavor profile, considering 1% salt in sausage I always think super bland, and 3% in sausage or cured meat is at top end where you’re thinking, “too salty!” Hard to know which I will like, and doesn’t seem to be a standard.
I think I will have to do a test, equilibrium cure 5 batches at 1 to 5% salt, and just taste them all!
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Cold smoke with one of those A MAZE N smoker tubes. Very good tool in my opinion and I use one often. Can even do it in a cardboard box or a speed rack wrapped in plastic.
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fallis10 thx much for your recipe! After I took tonight’s hot smoke salmon fromnthe brine, I added 1t each of toasted anise and coriander, crushed, based on you and othee posts.
Your brine just adds another odd datapoint for me to get a handle on this though, as it is less than 1%, only 0.75%, salt. So this makes me think that folks pretty much accept lox from 1% salt to 5% or even 10% or higher on one recipe. It is a huge span of flavor profile, considering 1% salt in sausage I always think super bland, and 3% in sausage or cured meat is at top end where you’re thinking, “too salty!” Hard to know which I will like, and doesn’t seem to be a standard.
I think I will have to do a test, equilibrium cure 5 batches at 1 to 5% salt, and just taste them all!
Dave in AZ
Sausage standard for me is 1.75-2%. Salmon can be treated the same way but would probably go with 1.25-1.75% (tops.) Aromatics are variables up to the chef.Cured meats, pork / dry cured to hang in controlled environment I use 2.75-3% salt until 30% weight loss. More salt if sugar is involved in the formula.
These numbers I’ll swear by. Hope it helps.
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A datapoint. I brined some 1.25" thick pieces of salmon as above for 1.5 hours, dried in fridge for 1 hr, and smoked/grilled at 325f. Pulled them at 145 internal then seared the skin in pan with olive oil for good crisp. They picked up a good bit of smoke, were fantastic. I would say that was the top end of salt I want inngrilled salmon. Not too salty, but I wouldn’t brine in 21% any longer than that.
Due to that, I pulled the lox cold smoke salmon from the brine at 4 hrs, and am soaking in cold water for 1 hr to take any excess salt out, as per Marianski. Will dry tonight in fridge then cold smoke tonight in my Smokin It, using my side mounted cold smoke generator. Temps should be 59 to 61 degrees at 0400 until 1000, will smoke then.
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A datapoint. I brined some 1.25" thick pieces of salmon as above for 1.5 hours, dried in fridge for 1 hr, and smoked/grilled at 325f. Pulled them at 145 internal then seared the skin in pan with olive oil for good crisp. They picked up a good bit of smoke, were fantastic. I would say that was the top end of salt I want inngrilled salmon. Not too salty, but I wouldn’t brine in 21% any longer than that.
Due to that, I pulled the lox cold smoke salmon from the brine at 4 hrs, and am soaking in cold water for 1 hr to take any excess salt out, as per Marianski. Will dry tonight in fridge then cold smoke tonight in my Smokin It, using my side mounted cold smoke generator. Temps should be 59 to 61 degrees at 0400 until 1000, will smoke then.
Dave in AZ honestly, even though I do love the results of my recipe, it is pretty time consuming, I have to rearrange my fridge to get the briner bucket in there, crushing and toasting spices is a pain in the butt sometimes… if you’re trying to impress somebody that will truly appreciate the amount of effort that went in to making them a lox bagel or rosettes, try a custom recipe. If I am just making some lox for the freezer or for a dinner party for Easter or Christmas, I just buy the Hi Mountain Alaskan Salmon brine mix. It is fantastic and you can cure about 15# of salmon for $10 or less worth of their product.
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just an observation…fallis10 recipe has 4 grams of cure #1 per 1 gallon of water and Dave in AZ recipe has 15 grams cure #1 per half gallon of water…am I missing something here ???
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just an observation…fallis10 recipe has 4 grams of cure #1 per 1 gallon of water and Dave in AZ recipe has 15 grams cure #1 per half gallon of water…am I missing something here ???
Mcjagger said in Lox or cold smoked salmon--need info:
just an observation…fallis10 recipe has 4 grams of cure #1 per 1 gallon of water and Dave in AZ recipe has 15 grams cure #1 per half gallon of water…am I missing something here ???
Not sure you are missing anything, but when using a liquid brine with salt and cure, there will be some variability in how much of the salt and cure is actually absorbed by the meat/fish.
The amount of time the fish/meat is in the wet brine is probably the biggest variable, as I see it. The salt and cure will transfer into the meat, and the longer the meat is in the cover brine, the more salt it will absorb until the salt/cure levels reach equilibrium.A concentrated brine is going to transfer salt and cure to the meat more quickly. I think you would need to be careful to not leave the fish in a strong brine too long or risk an overly salty product or cure amount that is something higher than what you want.
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