Sure Gel substitute Summer Sausage

[processhead]

JLane said in Sure Gel substitute Summer Sausage:

processhead Curious, is there a problem if I ordered powdered milk with fat? I found the below item before I seen this and now I’m slightly concerned! LOL It is a Spanish product but significantly cheaper than the other powdered milk products.

NIDO Fortificada Dry Whole Milk Powdered Drink Mix

I have never used whole dry milk as a binder.
I suspect it would work, but you might want to experiment with it in a smaller test batch of sausage just in case it doesn’t work quite like non-fat dry milk.

Maybe someone else here has had some hands-on experience and can comment?

[YooperDog]

JLane I don’t believe that there should be any issues. What you want to make sure is that you are using the powder that is processed properly for food production. The dry milk product that you can buy in the store and use to make milk at home is processed to a different temperature then the product used in food production, i.e. baking, sausage making, etc…

[JLane]

Thank you! It was hard to find something that was specifically made for baking vs instant. Question, what should someone look for ? To be honest, I took a risk and used the non fat instant powdered mil from Walmart.

[processhead]

I am not sure what difference, if any, comes from using the instant type of nonfat dry milk has on the finished product.
I have used the instant type in summer sausage and it turned out just fine with a tight bind and good texture.

[wdaly]

JLane I used non-fat instant dry milk before I knew about sure gel. I didn’t have any trouble with it.

[twilliams]

processhead I know the suregel has some flavor enhancer in it, I really don’t know if one could pick up much of a taste difference between the use of suregel vs plain nonfat dry milk. Kinda like MSG, does it really make foods taste better? I do like the convenience of the premeasured packets of suregel although I usually need to weigh it out in half as I mostly make half batches.

[akdave]

I have been using Con Yeager spice Company Circle S Binder for years for a binder and believe in it, but when I run out I use Powered Milk and still get great results. In both cases I use 1lb for every 25lbs of meat/fat Mix. and 1 oz of Sodium Phosphate and 1 OZ Cure salt. I think the most important aspect of making summer sausage and snack sticks is protein extraction and I feel that by grinding my fat first at 1/8" and then grind the meat 3/8" and then thoroughly mixing the two keeping them very cold and then regrinding them them 1/8" then adding the binder, spices, cure salt and sodium phosphate mixed together in cold water then again thoroughly mixing them in the product. Thanks to all the Watlons for all the How to Videos and forums I have learned many tricks and the best time saver is the Hot Water Bath for finishing off Snack Sticks and Summer Sausage. I get my product to 130-140 degrees in the smoker and then do a water bath in a big stainless steel steam table pan on my propane burner and get water to 160 -165 degrees and in a matter of minutes it is done.

[YooperDog]

Here is a link explaining some issues when choosing powder milk.

https://youtu.be/R_H5h14Wrq0

[Pivodog]

you can always use powdered milk or soy powder. I pretty much used powdered milk until I found Sure Gel!

[Dr_Pain]

wdaly said in Sure Gel substitute Summer Sausage:

JLane I used non-fat instant dry milk before I knew about sure gel. I didn’t have any trouble with it.

Same here…

[Skol9809]

I used 3.75 cups non fat dry milk and 5 tbsp cold phosphate per 25lbs. The summer sausage turned out the same as using sure gel.

[Dave in AZ]

The sure gel is just powdered whey protein, sodium phosphates blend 33.3%, and hydrolyzed gelatin “for flavor”.

So really, same as powdered milk or bodybuilding whey concentrate, plus the “cold phosphate” anyways. And I don’t find gelatin to convey much flavor, it is just a really commonly available binder, I would expect more benefit to the protein binding than flavor.

Since there is no Sure Gel to order, I am planning on using powdered milk and gelatin tomorrow for some snack sticks myself. I actively don’t want the phosphates, whose primary purpose is to help meat bind water, not fat, in order to get as much water in product as possible. That is actually kinda the opposite of what I want, as I am partially drying the snack sticks anyways. And absolutely not needed for jerky where you’re really drying it out. I’d much rather just use whichever of those 3 ingredients I actually need for the product. It sounds great for fresh sausage or maybe quick smoked brats though, where I actually AM trying to retain max water and juiciness. And I can see using it for summer sausage too for a better weight and texture.
Wish it was in stock for that

[mrobisr]

Dave in AZ these are also accepted as binders and gelling agents IAW USDA and easily bought by the home processor.

Pectin not to exceed 3% by weight of the product formulation

A mixture of carrageenan, whey protein concentrate, and xanthan gum not to exceed 3.5 percent by weight of the product formulation

[Dave in AZ]

mrobisr thx for the reply, I hadn’t seen pectin listed anywhere or used in a recipe.

I’ve got a bag of xanthum gum I grabbed one day when I saw it in a store, but Marianski says it only forms a gel if combined with konjac gum, which I’ve never seen. I’ve got guar gum, but it’s all mixed in with ice cream mixes, which would be great blends of guar, carageenan, corn syrup solids and gelatin… if they didnt also have strawberry or chocolate flavoring doh!

[Skol9809]

I see 2oz cold phosphate is recommended for 25lbs of meat which is 4 tbsp. The summer sausage I made using 3.75 cup non fat dry milk and 5 tbsp cold phosphate wasn’t overly juicy, was the same end product as sure gel binder. I will use less cold phosphate next batch I’ve read too much can give off a soapy flavor.

[Grimpuppy]

Sure Gel back in stock!

[Dave in AZ]

Grimpuppy sweet, thx for posting! Put in an order for $280 of goodies including sure gel was just waiting!