Mushy snack sticks
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Hello my snack sticks and summer sausage keep coming out very soft and mushy. Any pointers would be greatly appreciated. Thank you
Im using all waltons products and pk100 smoker. I am using the 1lb and 5lb conversion charts for the amount of meat i have. Im putting 1/2 cup of carrot fiber binder per 5lbs and 2oz of water per lb of meat. Im doing 80/20 with pork back fat and lean beef. And folllowing the smoke schedule from the how-to page. I have a 20lb mixer and 5lb sausage stuffer. The meat comes out of the stuffer very sticky. I am totally lost. They used to come out perfect now this winter has been a struggle. Would to much carrot fiber and water be the reason? I noticed on the 25lb batch seems like less carrot fiber and water compared to the 1 and 5 lb conversion chart.
dh4ever77 hello before I dive in I am gonna ask how many pounds is your total meat block? There are a few things I am gonna suggest. #1 is get rid of the carrot fiber, as others have suggested sure gel is the way to go but honestly I started out not using any binder and they came out very well. I do use sure gel now but unfortunately it is backordered. You can mix small batches by hand and get good protein extraction with or without a binder. Your water is actually below what I use, which is approximately 2.5 ounces per pound so too much water is not your issue.
On the pk100 I am familiar with but have not used, I have the bigger brother to the pk100. Which the only difference is it has two burners and a circulation fan for even cabinet heat and drying capabilities. Your cook cycle will take longer as well. With your pk100 use only the 1250watt setting. Here is the smoke/cook cycle I am suggesting.
Heat up smoker to 250* or highest setting
Add sausage and TURN HEAT DOWN TO 110*
110* for 1 hour dampers wide open (drying stage)
125* for 2 hours damper 1/2 open bottom 1/8th open top if you have one (start smoke)
140* for 1 hour (smoke)
155* for 2 hours (remove smoke pan after first hour of this cycle)
170* until IT is 160* with all dampers closed.
Smoke is optional you can do more, less or none at all based on your liking.Next is my meat block, I will share for a 25lb batch and you can divide it up to get a per pound ratio
16.50 lbs lean protein (beef or venison)
6.50 lbs 80/20 pork trim
2.00 lbs pork back fat
1800 ml of ice cold distilled water
1 oz sure cure (that is dissolved in the water)
1 package sure gel (.375 lbs)
Seasoning of choiceMake sure all meat is super cold but not frozen during entire process. You can grind partially frozen if you have a big enough grinder to handle it. I wear cotton gloves with nitrile gloves over top while mixing.
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dh4ever77 hello before I dive in I am gonna ask how many pounds is your total meat block? There are a few things I am gonna suggest. #1 is get rid of the carrot fiber, as others have suggested sure gel is the way to go but honestly I started out not using any binder and they came out very well. I do use sure gel now but unfortunately it is backordered. You can mix small batches by hand and get good protein extraction with or without a binder. Your water is actually below what I use, which is approximately 2.5 ounces per pound so too much water is not your issue.
On the pk100 I am familiar with but have not used, I have the bigger brother to the pk100. Which the only difference is it has two burners and a circulation fan for even cabinet heat and drying capabilities. Your cook cycle will take longer as well. With your pk100 use only the 1250watt setting. Here is the smoke/cook cycle I am suggesting.
Heat up smoker to 250* or highest setting
Add sausage and TURN HEAT DOWN TO 110*
110* for 1 hour dampers wide open (drying stage)
125* for 2 hours damper 1/2 open bottom 1/8th open top if you have one (start smoke)
140* for 1 hour (smoke)
155* for 2 hours (remove smoke pan after first hour of this cycle)
170* until IT is 160* with all dampers closed.
Smoke is optional you can do more, less or none at all based on your liking.Next is my meat block, I will share for a 25lb batch and you can divide it up to get a per pound ratio
16.50 lbs lean protein (beef or venison)
6.50 lbs 80/20 pork trim
2.00 lbs pork back fat
1800 ml of ice cold distilled water
1 oz sure cure (that is dissolved in the water)
1 package sure gel (.375 lbs)
Seasoning of choiceMake sure all meat is super cold but not frozen during entire process. You can grind partially frozen if you have a big enough grinder to handle it. I wear cotton gloves with nitrile gloves over top while mixing.
twilliams thank you for a detailed response will definitely be using your recipe. My meat block was 10lbs. 8lbs of meat 2lbs of fat. I have a lem mixer i use. I deffently will be going back to sure gel for cured sausage. I did not realize carrot fiber binder is best suited for fresh sausage. I always keep it on the 1250 watts as the 600 dosnt seem to do much. Is ur fan aftermarket or did it come with it? I wondered if that would help keep a constant temp with out hot spots threw out the smoker. I deffently think the carrot fiber binder is the issue. I really appreciate the help hopfully i can get my sure gel softened up and make a good batch this week.
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dh4ever77 hello before I dive in I am gonna ask how many pounds is your total meat block? There are a few things I am gonna suggest. #1 is get rid of the carrot fiber, as others have suggested sure gel is the way to go but honestly I started out not using any binder and they came out very well. I do use sure gel now but unfortunately it is backordered. You can mix small batches by hand and get good protein extraction with or without a binder. Your water is actually below what I use, which is approximately 2.5 ounces per pound so too much water is not your issue.
On the pk100 I am familiar with but have not used, I have the bigger brother to the pk100. Which the only difference is it has two burners and a circulation fan for even cabinet heat and drying capabilities. Your cook cycle will take longer as well. With your pk100 use only the 1250watt setting. Here is the smoke/cook cycle I am suggesting.
Heat up smoker to 250* or highest setting
Add sausage and TURN HEAT DOWN TO 110*
110* for 1 hour dampers wide open (drying stage)
125* for 2 hours damper 1/2 open bottom 1/8th open top if you have one (start smoke)
140* for 1 hour (smoke)
155* for 2 hours (remove smoke pan after first hour of this cycle)
170* until IT is 160* with all dampers closed.
Smoke is optional you can do more, less or none at all based on your liking.Next is my meat block, I will share for a 25lb batch and you can divide it up to get a per pound ratio
16.50 lbs lean protein (beef or venison)
6.50 lbs 80/20 pork trim
2.00 lbs pork back fat
1800 ml of ice cold distilled water
1 oz sure cure (that is dissolved in the water)
1 package sure gel (.375 lbs)
Seasoning of choiceMake sure all meat is super cold but not frozen during entire process. You can grind partially frozen if you have a big enough grinder to handle it. I wear cotton gloves with nitrile gloves over top while mixing.
twilliams sorry for multiple post hard to remember everything as i can not look back at your post while commenting. Do you every do the pan of water with a sponge to get the relative humidity up?
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twilliams sorry for multiple post hard to remember everything as i can not look back at your post while commenting. Do you every do the pan of water with a sponge to get the relative humidity up?
dh4ever77 my fan is built in to the smoker. My smoker is quite a bit bigger than yours. As well as the price. The going rate at the time I bought it was $9200. But yours is top notch for the smaller home smoker set up in my opinion. I’m not sure if you could put in an after market fan. I would call ProSmoker tech and ask his opinion if that is a route you would like to take. I would be concerned with only the one burner being enough heat with a fan added. You would need a circulation fan and an exhaust fan to pull air through the bottom vent.
Like someone else mentioned on your sure gel, dump the hardened stuff in a gallon zip lock and use a rolling pin. It will get it back to original powder. I do that with hardened seasoning as well.
I tried a pan of water once, didn’t see any difference, however I have not tried the auto sponges and chamois trick. I would suggest if you try the water pan to heat up the water to just about boiling so it has a chance to start evaporating right away without having to heat it first.
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twilliams sorry for multiple post hard to remember everything as i can not look back at your post while commenting. Do you every do the pan of water with a sponge to get the relative humidity up?
dh4ever77 Jamieson22 has a pk100 and I gave him my schedule as well. He had a long extended cook when he tried it. I don’t remember how his final product turned out. Maybe he will chime in and give you some pointers as well. Using the water pan with sponges should help speed up the process. I think usually the stall is around 145* so if you can get your water in around that temp that should speed things up. Only downfall is having to open the door to put the pan in. That will slow things down some
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dh4ever77 Jamieson22 has a pk100 and I gave him my schedule as well. He had a long extended cook when he tried it. I don’t remember how his final product turned out. Maybe he will chime in and give you some pointers as well. Using the water pan with sponges should help speed up the process. I think usually the stall is around 145* so if you can get your water in around that temp that should speed things up. Only downfall is having to open the door to put the pan in. That will slow things down some
twilliams said in Mushy snack sticks:
dh4ever77 has a pk100 and I gave him my schedule as well.
I supposed what you consider mushy may be relative, but no one has ever called mine that. Here is my most recent batch using a PK100 for some reference.
https://meatgistics.waltonsinc.com/topic/4235/habanero-bbq-snack-sticks-w-hot-pepper-cheeseI used sure gel once and my sticks were kind of rubbery and squeaky like a cheese curd. So I stopped using any binder and haven’t made a batch I felt was lacking.
Did you double grind? Could be you didn’t get much protein extraction making for a loose mince?
Any chance they are undercooked? I could see that being “mushy”. What temp did you take them to and did you just go off temp of one stick? -
twilliams said in Mushy snack sticks:
dh4ever77 has a pk100 and I gave him my schedule as well.
I supposed what you consider mushy may be relative, but no one has ever called mine that. Here is my most recent batch using a PK100 for some reference.
https://meatgistics.waltonsinc.com/topic/4235/habanero-bbq-snack-sticks-w-hot-pepper-cheeseI used sure gel once and my sticks were kind of rubbery and squeaky like a cheese curd. So I stopped using any binder and haven’t made a batch I felt was lacking.
Did you double grind? Could be you didn’t get much protein extraction making for a loose mince?
Any chance they are undercooked? I could see that being “mushy”. What temp did you take them to and did you just go off temp of one stick?Jamieson22 i mixed in a hand held mixer from lem was like laffy taffy so sticky. The sticks were very wet they do not snap,but the casings stay intact. I also stuck my mini i grill in multiple till 160. I even double checked them with my kicken prob. I found some excalibur sure gell received it to day will be trying it again this weekend. I always used it then tryed carrot fiber and drew a blank till everyone pointed that out. Thank you for the response.
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dh4ever77 hello before I dive in I am gonna ask how many pounds is your total meat block? There are a few things I am gonna suggest. #1 is get rid of the carrot fiber, as others have suggested sure gel is the way to go but honestly I started out not using any binder and they came out very well. I do use sure gel now but unfortunately it is backordered. You can mix small batches by hand and get good protein extraction with or without a binder. Your water is actually below what I use, which is approximately 2.5 ounces per pound so too much water is not your issue.
On the pk100 I am familiar with but have not used, I have the bigger brother to the pk100. Which the only difference is it has two burners and a circulation fan for even cabinet heat and drying capabilities. Your cook cycle will take longer as well. With your pk100 use only the 1250watt setting. Here is the smoke/cook cycle I am suggesting.
Heat up smoker to 250* or highest setting
Add sausage and TURN HEAT DOWN TO 110*
110* for 1 hour dampers wide open (drying stage)
125* for 2 hours damper 1/2 open bottom 1/8th open top if you have one (start smoke)
140* for 1 hour (smoke)
155* for 2 hours (remove smoke pan after first hour of this cycle)
170* until IT is 160* with all dampers closed.
Smoke is optional you can do more, less or none at all based on your liking.Next is my meat block, I will share for a 25lb batch and you can divide it up to get a per pound ratio
16.50 lbs lean protein (beef or venison)
6.50 lbs 80/20 pork trim
2.00 lbs pork back fat
1800 ml of ice cold distilled water
1 oz sure cure (that is dissolved in the water)
1 package sure gel (.375 lbs)
Seasoning of choiceMake sure all meat is super cold but not frozen during entire process. You can grind partially frozen if you have a big enough grinder to handle it. I wear cotton gloves with nitrile gloves over top while mixing.
twilliams that is a great post thanks for sharing such detailed information
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Jamieson22 i mixed in a hand held mixer from lem was like laffy taffy so sticky. The sticks were very wet they do not snap,but the casings stay intact. I also stuck my mini i grill in multiple till 160. I even double checked them with my kicken prob. I found some excalibur sure gell received it to day will be trying it again this weekend. I always used it then tryed carrot fiber and drew a blank till everyone pointed that out. Thank you for the response.
dh4ever77 Do you by chance have a dehydrator? Be curious what a few hours in there would do for these.
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dh4ever77 Do you by chance have a dehydrator? Be curious what a few hours in there would do for these.
Jamieson22 I do not it was a pk100 or nice dehydrator. I went with the pk. I got some rump roast and pork but. I will be trying it again today. Then hold and smoke tomorrow. Everyone loves the flavor and they seem a bit firmer after a week in fridge. I have the rest vacuum sealed and frozen.
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dh4ever77 hello before I dive in I am gonna ask how many pounds is your total meat block? There are a few things I am gonna suggest. #1 is get rid of the carrot fiber, as others have suggested sure gel is the way to go but honestly I started out not using any binder and they came out very well. I do use sure gel now but unfortunately it is backordered. You can mix small batches by hand and get good protein extraction with or without a binder. Your water is actually below what I use, which is approximately 2.5 ounces per pound so too much water is not your issue.
On the pk100 I am familiar with but have not used, I have the bigger brother to the pk100. Which the only difference is it has two burners and a circulation fan for even cabinet heat and drying capabilities. Your cook cycle will take longer as well. With your pk100 use only the 1250watt setting. Here is the smoke/cook cycle I am suggesting.
Heat up smoker to 250* or highest setting
Add sausage and TURN HEAT DOWN TO 110*
110* for 1 hour dampers wide open (drying stage)
125* for 2 hours damper 1/2 open bottom 1/8th open top if you have one (start smoke)
140* for 1 hour (smoke)
155* for 2 hours (remove smoke pan after first hour of this cycle)
170* until IT is 160* with all dampers closed.
Smoke is optional you can do more, less or none at all based on your liking.Next is my meat block, I will share for a 25lb batch and you can divide it up to get a per pound ratio
16.50 lbs lean protein (beef or venison)
6.50 lbs 80/20 pork trim
2.00 lbs pork back fat
1800 ml of ice cold distilled water
1 oz sure cure (that is dissolved in the water)
1 package sure gel (.375 lbs)
Seasoning of choiceMake sure all meat is super cold but not frozen during entire process. You can grind partially frozen if you have a big enough grinder to handle it. I wear cotton gloves with nitrile gloves over top while mixing.
-
Jamieson22 I do not it was a pk100 or nice dehydrator. I went with the pk. I got some rump roast and pork but. I will be trying it again today. Then hold and smoke tomorrow. Everyone loves the flavor and they seem a bit firmer after a week in fridge. I have the rest vacuum sealed and frozen.
dh4ever77 said in Mushy snack sticks:
Jamieson22 I do not it was a pk100 or nice dehydrator. I went with the pk. I got some rump roast and pork but. I will be trying it again today. Then hold and smoke tomorrow. Everyone loves the flavor and they seem a bit firmer after a week in fridge. I have the rest vacuum sealed and frozen.
Maybe see if you can dry a small batch out in your oven?
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dh4ever77 it was actually a whole hog I had trimmed up in 25lb batches at 80/20 ratio. I was buying 2 Berkshire hogs a year from my hog supplier. I would have one butchered for family meals of steaks, roasts and bacon, the other just all pork trim for sausages and fresh brats for the year. Pork butts is an option if that is all you can get but I doubt you would get a 80/20 ratio. You would have to trim all fat off the lean then weigh each lean and fat separately to figure out what your ratio is.
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dh4ever77 it was actually a whole hog I had trimmed up in 25lb batches at 80/20 ratio. I was buying 2 Berkshire hogs a year from my hog supplier. I would have one butchered for family meals of steaks, roasts and bacon, the other just all pork trim for sausages and fresh brats for the year. Pork butts is an option if that is all you can get but I doubt you would get a 80/20 ratio. You would have to trim all fat off the lean then weigh each lean and fat separately to figure out what your ratio is.
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dh4ever77 it was actually a whole hog I had trimmed up in 25lb batches at 80/20 ratio. I was buying 2 Berkshire hogs a year from my hog supplier. I would have one butchered for family meals of steaks, roasts and bacon, the other just all pork trim for sausages and fresh brats for the year. Pork butts is an option if that is all you can get but I doubt you would get a 80/20 ratio. You would have to trim all fat off the lean then weigh each lean and fat separately to figure out what your ratio is.
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twilliams well i guess my question is i have a 6lb beef roast. Should i mix with the pork shoulder and back fat or just back fat?
dh4ever77 I prefer pork added to my meat block. It’s not a must. So for a 6 lb lean beef meat 30% of that is 1.8 pounds. So if you do 6 lb lean beef, 1.8 lbs 80/20 pork trim and .2 lbs of pork fat giving you an even 8 lb meat block would be close to a 70/30 mix. Or you could do 6 lb lean beef with 1.5 lbs of pork fat and no pork trim for a total of 7.5 lb meat block.
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Everyone has given great advice, but I will add this little caveat. I do not add liquid according to recipes, but according to the mince’s appearance. There are just too many variables in meats today, some inject phosphates, some saline water, and others it is just meat, so when I am mixing I add liquid to the point where the mince has a nice shiny glossy appearance, no more or no less and it has never failed me, ever. If you are wondering what that looks like, just add a little liquid at a time when mixing and you will see the mince turn from a dull paste looking glob to a pretty mince that shines, that is the perfect mince.
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While feeding I also was thinking and I do not know how the recipes are developed for pre-packaged seasonings, but most all professional sausage makers use green hams and back fat to specific ratios, if you are like me and use what is available or on sale then that can also throw off the moisture content and texture of your mince. Not the end of the world, but something to think about when adding liquid.
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