Tender roast beef and roast pork?
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Jonathon said in Tender roast beef and roast pork?:
mikemikemike Vacuum tumbling would have been the most obvious “trick” I can think of but it seems like you’ve tried that one. I’m gonna talk to our application specialist tomorrow and see what he comes up with as far as additives. There are additives you can use to help but I am pretty sure it has more to do with cooking/processing when arby’s makes theirs. They obviously also use additives but I think it has moreto do with the cooking and I do think sous vide is the main thing they use for it. I know you’ve done it in the past but I’ve read accounts of Arbys employees getting the “grey blob” out of the vac bag. Ill let you know what I find out.
I really shouldn’t have used Arby’s as an example. They clearly use some sort of pressed meat chunks with additives to make it juicy and and tender. Reminds me of a Terrine. And yes sous vide would definitely benefit the end product since the flavors are already pressed/injected/vacuum’d into the meat.
But solid meats sous vide , if you perfect the time/temp could get that perfect tenderness/juicy ratio. But you sacrifice flavor. And we are talking about a long time at most likely a very specific temp. For example, the best pulled pork butt i have ever did sous vide was 30 hours at 155F. It just pulled from the bone and shredded with barely any effort. But in this experiment i need the meat to slice fairly thin and hold up on its own weight.
mikemikemike Re: Slicing the meat. Sous vide it, less it cool, place it in the cooler and slice it in the morning. You will get proper slices. Just make sure it’s cold.
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mikemikemike Re: Slicing the meat. Sous vide it, less it cool, place it in the cooler and slice it in the morning. You will get proper slices. Just make sure it’s cold.
Maybe you misunderstood my posts.This was a pre packaged boneless picnic roast that came trussed. I only injected it with a solution of Bromelain, MSG, and sodium phosphate, then vacuum tumbled it for 45 minutes just before i put it on the rotisserie.
I Rotisserie it low and slow (about 4 hours) till it reached 155F. I chilled it overnight. And sliced it #5 dial on my Hobart The following day. I only put a small portion in a bag and sous vide it at around 140F for 30 minutes to bring it back up to servering temp. Thats when i really noticed how tender and juicy it really was, as you can see in the pictures i provided. I couldn’t have asked for a better end result for a first attempt using bromelain and sodium phosphate. The flavor was outstanding, not salty at all, just perfect. -
As far as sous vide from beginning to end, that would only work if you already had an adundance of “gravy” made the traditional way from drippings. Especially with pork. Sure there are things like pork base you can buy for food service, but in my opinion, none of them are like the real thing. I make my pork stock from scratch with pork neck bones i get from a local butcher that slaughters their own pigs. Usually a $1/lb if i buy 30lbs or more.
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As far as sous vide from beginning to end, that would only work if you already had an adundance of “gravy” made the traditional way from drippings. Especially with pork. Sure there are things like pork base you can buy for food service, but in my opinion, none of them are like the real thing. I make my pork stock from scratch with pork neck bones i get from a local butcher that slaughters their own pigs. Usually a $1/lb if i buy 30lbs or more.
mikemikemike I use the juice from the sous vide bag to make the gravy.
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mikemikemike I use the juice from the sous vide bag to make the gravy.
I have done that in the past, and its not terrible, but its nothing like the drippings from a roast thats been on a spit all day. Or 5lbs of neck bones browned and in the pressure cooker for 2-4 hours.
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Maybe you misunderstood my posts.This was a pre packaged boneless picnic roast that came trussed. I only injected it with a solution of Bromelain, MSG, and sodium phosphate, then vacuum tumbled it for 45 minutes just before i put it on the rotisserie.
I Rotisserie it low and slow (about 4 hours) till it reached 155F. I chilled it overnight. And sliced it #5 dial on my Hobart The following day. I only put a small portion in a bag and sous vide it at around 140F for 30 minutes to bring it back up to servering temp. Thats when i really noticed how tender and juicy it really was, as you can see in the pictures i provided. I couldn’t have asked for a better end result for a first attempt using bromelain and sodium phosphate. The flavor was outstanding, not salty at all, just perfect.mikemikemike Damn, I totally missed “the post” you mentioned. Sorry for not doing a thorough search of the discussion thread. Please accept my apologies.
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As far as sous vide from beginning to end, that would only work if you already had an adundance of “gravy” made the traditional way from drippings. Especially with pork. Sure there are things like pork base you can buy for food service, but in my opinion, none of them are like the real thing. I make my pork stock from scratch with pork neck bones i get from a local butcher that slaughters their own pigs. Usually a $1/lb if i buy 30lbs or more.
mikemikemike Totally agree on the “drippings” with sous vide. Looks and sounds like you have it going. Keep it up. Again, see what happens when this person didn’t catch the “whole” thread. Please accept my apology AGAIN. Have another great day. P.S. Yes, I’m not the kind of person who goes and hides when they make a mistake. I learned long ago that I admit when I’m wrong straight up. That way, I can sleep better.
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Maybe you misunderstood my posts.This was a pre packaged boneless picnic roast that came trussed. I only injected it with a solution of Bromelain, MSG, and sodium phosphate, then vacuum tumbled it for 45 minutes just before i put it on the rotisserie.
I Rotisserie it low and slow (about 4 hours) till it reached 155F. I chilled it overnight. And sliced it #5 dial on my Hobart The following day. I only put a small portion in a bag and sous vide it at around 140F for 30 minutes to bring it back up to servering temp. Thats when i really noticed how tender and juicy it really was, as you can see in the pictures i provided. I couldn’t have asked for a better end result for a first attempt using bromelain and sodium phosphate. The flavor was outstanding, not salty at all, just perfect.mikemikemike Don’t know why my reply to the “misunderstanding you indicated” was indicated as “Censored”. The post read: ( I totally missed “the post” you mentioned. Sorry for not doing a thorough search of the discussion thread. Please accept my apologies.)
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mikemikemike Don’t know why my reply to the “misunderstanding you indicated” was indicated as “Censored”. The post read: ( I totally missed “the post” you mentioned. Sorry for not doing a thorough search of the discussion thread. Please accept my apologies.)
zbigjeff
No need to appologize. I skim read things too sometimes. Plus, i am new to using this type of forum. I am used to the old style forums without all the extra stuff like live chat, tags and notifications -
Here is a sous vide chuck roast thst I did today. It was injected with Soluble Pa’s Black Bull, and rubbed with Butter Garlic rub.
Tex_77 said in Tender roast beef and roast pork?:
Here is a sous vide chuck roast thst I did today. It was injected with Soluble Pa’s Black Bull, and rubbed with Butter Garlic rub.
What time and temp did you go with? I have had really good results with 24 hours @ 132.5F. Came out like prime rib.
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Tex_77 said in Tender roast beef and roast pork?:
Here is a sous vide chuck roast thst I did today. It was injected with Soluble Pa’s Black Bull, and rubbed with Butter Garlic rub.
What time and temp did you go with? I have had really good results with 24 hours @ 132.5F. Came out like prime rib.
mikemikemike I usally try to do 24 hours at 130. So it looks like we are on the same page as far as sous vide chuck roast goes.
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I generally use eye round for pit beef. I either do it on a infrared cooker or smoker. I like it just about walking so cook until 125 internal temp. I usually trim it up add salt, pepper, garlic powder and onion powder, If I smoke leave the seasoned eye round in the refrig for 24 hours (pellicle), toss in the smoker at 225degrees F until it reaches desired temp (125 for me). Take it off the smoker , let it rest and let the Hobart Slicer work it’s magic. I go real thin to just about chipping or shaving. Can’t imagine anything more tender. I have also made a marinade of lemons/oranges with a-1 but I really like it simple and let the meat speak for itself.
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I generally use eye round for pit beef. I either do it on a infrared cooker or smoker. I like it just about walking so cook until 125 internal temp. I usually trim it up add salt, pepper, garlic powder and onion powder, If I smoke leave the seasoned eye round in the refrig for 24 hours (pellicle), toss in the smoker at 225degrees F until it reaches desired temp (125 for me). Take it off the smoker , let it rest and let the Hobart Slicer work it’s magic. I go real thin to just about chipping or shaving. Can’t imagine anything more tender. I have also made a marinade of lemons/oranges with a-1 but I really like it simple and let the meat speak for itself.
I reserve eye round for beef jerky. For pit beef I use either Tri Tip, or Sirloin Tip roast. I pull around 117F. There is a good 10F carry over with a large roast.
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mikemikemike I agree that eye of round is pretty perfect for whole muscle jerky. I recently discovered that intramuscular fatty cuts seem to work really well for the “tender” jerky, I am just trying to find out some information/documentation on what (if anything) the extra sugar is doing to the fat to keep it from spoiling. If I can prove that it is doing that I am going to do a ton of stuff with fatty meats and jerky!
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A few years ago I created a recipe for lean ground jerky that included Sure Gel to get a product people regularly mistake for tender full muscle.
It’s still my favorite
On fatty jerky: friends give me meat to make jerky for them and many times they give me pre-ground or well marbled cuts
In my opinion this makes better tasting jerky, however you must deal with oily fingers and a less appealing appearance in the vac-pack
Also I caution them once they open the vac-pack it should be consumed or stored in the refrigerator because the fat dramatically shortens the shelf life -
Thanks for the replies, but i have tried everything mentioned. However, While i have made 132.5F 24 hour sous vide chuck roast, I have not tried slicing sous vide chuck roast thin against the grain. But i still do feel there is more to it then that as Arby’s certainly would not beable to sell a product like that.
mikemikemike try bottom round for 24-36 hours. Then fridge it for 4 hours before slicing. I just perfected an Italian beef recipe that my chicago inlaws are loving.
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mikemikemike try bottom round for 24-36 hours. Then fridge it for 4 hours before slicing. I just perfected an Italian beef recipe that my chicago inlaws are loving.
I may take another crack at Bottom and Top round with the use of sodium phosphate since it is something new to me. But i have done both top and bottom round sous vide and even at med rare temps for 24+ hours the end result was dry, especially after sliced paper thin on the Hobart, and dipped into the hot au jus. I think those Chicago italian beef places lie when they say they dip into 185F au jus. It almost instantly turns the meat into wel done and suprisingly dry with cuts like top and bottom round.
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I may take another crack at Bottom and Top round with the use of sodium phosphate since it is something new to me. But i have done both top and bottom round sous vide and even at med rare temps for 24+ hours the end result was dry, especially after sliced paper thin on the Hobart, and dipped into the hot au jus. I think those Chicago italian beef places lie when they say they dip into 185F au jus. It almost instantly turns the meat into wel done and suprisingly dry with cuts like top and bottom round.
Yeah in my recipe I cook at 134 for 24-36 hours fridge or ice bath to bring to slicing temp and return them to 145F in Au Jus an no more. If your dunking in 185F the meat would need to be fridge temp and it would need to be fast as to bring it to edible 140+. Leaving anything at 185 for any amount of time would be bad.
I haven’t gotten as far sodium phosphate either. I don’t think it would do much in the sous vide temps of 134 though. Heat is pressure and at that low of pressure the meat shouldn’t loose much moisture. The extended time is for the breaking down of the collagen similar to smoking a brisket at 225 for 15 hours. You can break collagen down at higher temps faster but you sacrifice moisture, that is where things like sodium phosphate offer moisture retention.
I’ve been sous viding for a couple years and building BBQ smokers for a while longer than that. Everything I have learned comes back to technique and quality of product. You can make some amazing things from poor quality, but it takes some real technique. Start with good quality and your technique can waver a good bit and still end up in the fairway. Sous vide allows for some amazing things from the cheapest cuts you can find, but it takes some practice and writing things down to get a constant repeatable process that yields something that reminds people of Chicago while sitting in Georgia.
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Yeah, I would recommend going up to 24 hours at 134°F in a sous vide container for a rare tender roast. Spices and herbs I love to add: Thyme, Paprika, Cayenne, Pepper, Oregano, Mustard, Garlic, Parsely, Cajun spices, Fajita spices. The roast is then seared in a hot cast-iron pan for 1 minute on each side to get a nice caramelized crust.
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Tex_77 Do you mind sharing your recipe for the 8-16, specifically for the sauce, we know you used Pa’s and Butter Garlic Rub
Get more help with your processing questions and learn more about processing meat by subscribing to our waltonsinc.com youtube page at https://wltns.link/waltonstv I am a Gorilla, love yourself
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