Yes it can work, sort of, but there are limitations. Roaster ovens don’t have precise temperature control, but if your ambient conditions are relatively consistent (as in a kitchen in a normally climate controlled home) you should be able to to dial them in to reasonable precision. Way less than an immersion circulator, but maybe enough for the purpose. But another problem is that, unlike an immersion circulator that keeps the water moving, the water will be still in the roaster oven. This will slow the heating effect, and make it possible that the product closer to the heated surface will be exposed to higher heat than the product farther from the heated surface. Again, these differences may be tolerable.

A roaster oven powered though a PID (I use an Auber) is my #1 go-to tool for making stock, because it is safe, stable and high volume (mine is 22qts). But I think that an immersion circulator is a better way to go if you’re trying to do a sous vide cook.

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Jonathon What temp do you smoke to? I’ve been wondering about lower temps. Using the USDA temp schedule it would be technically safe to smoke somewhere in the low 130’s if you held it there at least a couple of hours, but if I understand things correctly that would be too low for the ECA to dissolve. And I can’t help but wonder how it would affect texture or case wrinkling.

I have some experience with summer sausage, but I’ve never made snack sticks. A buddy who is brand new to smoking has asked me to teach him how to turn a bunch of his venison into snack sticks. I plan to use Sure-Gel, ECA and high-temp cheese.

Going through the Meatgistics videos I see two fairly different sets of time/temp instruction. I’m running an electric smoker controlled by an Auber PID, so I have no problem doing either but hoped for some clarification on which is best.

Drying (dampers full open, no smoke, no humidity):

• 120°F for 10 minutes
• 130°F for 30 minutes

Smoking (dampers 1/3 open, add humidity, apply smoke)

• 130°F for 1 hour
• 150°F for 1 hour
• 160°F for 1 hour

Finishing (dampers closed unless needed for combustion, add humidity, no smoke)

• 180°F until meat = 160°F

Drying (dampers full open, no smoke, no humidity):

• 125°F for 1 hour

Smoking (dampers 1/3 open, add humidity, apply smoke)

• 140°F for 1 hour
• 155°F for 2 hours

Finishing (dampers closed unless needed for combustion, add humidity, no smoke)

• undefined175°F until meat = 160°F

Then both had an ice bath and dried at room temp for an hour.

It seems like the first one takes the ECA through its transition phase a little slower, and that it finishes the sausage a little more aggressively. I’ve seen another recipe that wants the finishing step at 170°F, which eases the sticks up to 160 more slowly.

I have no idea what the impact of these slight differences (if any) might be. Since this will be my first batch and it’s someone else’s meat I hope to learn through others before I learn from experience.

Jonathon Yeah. The forces that flatten it when first vacuumed are the same when it is thawed - unless the bag seal has failed in some way. Only the frozen state prevents it.

This also works on even more delicate items than sausages… such as bread. There is a limit though. Firm breads do great if frozen first, but really delicate things like a croissant or flaky biscuit may not have enough structural integrity even when frozen.

Whatever you’re thawing, if it could deform you should pierce or snip a corner of the bag when you remove the package from the freezer. Otherwise the “moosh” might have only been delayed, not prevented.

I have no criticism to offer for the Pit Boss. I’m sure it works great. But I just can’t manufacture a reason to spend money to “solve” what is already working perfectly for me.

And, having done it myself, I believe an “average joe” with any wiring experience at all could follow the instructions to mod a digital MB box for PID control. I’m not an advanced or professional wiring guy, and it was simple for me. It was maybe an hour job, taking my time.

The now-defunct 340G gave me a box tall enough to handle the hanging sausage I process and wide enough to handle full racks of ribs without trimming. Nirvana. And the raised, wheeled platform made it mobile and ergonomically accessible. And the Auber makes it feel like an extension of my will.

It’s like motorcycles. I want a LOT of them. If I could have 10, I’m sure at least one would be a Harley. But I can only have 1 so it’s a BMW. I can’t have 10 smokers, so I don’t have a pellet burner.

NOW who have I annoyed???

mikemikemike Our posts are crossing. As I said, I modified it using simple instructions available via a quick google search. It bypassed all of the digital electronics. My MB40 is now just a nice box with a heating element completely controlled by my Auber.

The Auber requires no “magic” to work with any analog electric cooking device. They don’t work AT ALL with any digitally controlled cooking device.

The MB40 I bought needed to be modified (using simple instructions available on the web) to route around the controller and allow the heating element to be controlled by a PID - turning it into an analog cooking tool. Some electric smokers, including some MB smokers, are natively analog and will require no such modification.

And, as I’ve said before, the PID is great for other cooking tasks using tools that are already analog. Like most crock pots, or roaster ovens. I really like it. 22quarts of venison stock placidly processing in my garage at a precise 190° for 24 hours or so makes me kind of giddy.

I’ve used a couple of iterations of MB30’s over the years, and have smoked on a kamado joe using a partyQ. And caveman style using a Weber grill. And over a water smoker. If I had more budget, motivation and time, I’d probably be looking at a reverse flow stick burner. But this MB40/Auber/Mailbox is a combo that works better than any other setup I have used. If you got the impression I think it works better then setups I have NOT used, you are reading more in to my words than is actually there.

Whether Aubers that can be set up with a blower for charcoal is something I never researched. And it really has nothing to do with this thread. I never looked into it, because it had nothing to do with my setup.

I did buy the Auber circulation fan kit, for installation in the MB box - which handily prevents hot/cold spots. Really happy with it.

Like I said, I’m just in it for the smoking. I decided I wanted to go PID controilled. And decided I liked the 40" masterbuilt box up on a rolling pedestal. I have no desire to attack or defend the MB brand. The reality is that they are built to a price point and marketed to an audience that is price sensitive. Slaving the MB40 to my Auber has achieved all of my goals without spending way more than I thought made sense.

I do not question that your pellet burner has achieved your goals. I just happen to prefer electrics, now that I have control of the temp via the PID, and over the smoke via the mailbox mod. I’m just a happy smoker sharing my experience, not a brand or technique evangelist looking to save souls.

mikemikemike Dude. Work for Auber? Seriously? We’re just having a talk here.

I absolutely agree with you that modding a digitally controlled electric smoker is outside the realm of the “average joe”, though it is not exactly rocket surgery.

I am “the average joe”, but I was so profoundly frustrated with my smoking experiences I devoted a slightly illogical amount of energy and expense to the problem. But am very satisfied with the result.

As I said already, I claim no expertise. And though I am not anxious to spend more money right now I am wide open to being educated on “new technology”.

The Auber is my only experience with a PID – so you are correct I am not informed on the technology of other PIDs. I am in no position to debate the relative merits of the Auber vs alternatives.

If you have anything to say about PID’s, I look forward to becoming better educated on the topic. I have no “brand loyalty”, and just want to smoke well, often, and easily. By all means, mention better/cheaper products than Auber. If anyone wants to debate you about it, it won’t be me - I barely know anything about the topic and have no preconceptions. I’m just here to enjoy smoking. Using a PID has increased my enjoyment.

I’m no expert, but if it won’t hit 275 in anything approaching normal weather, it is either a problem with the element, the control, or the integrity of the box.

Whatever it is, I can tell you that by spending a couple of hundred bucks on a PID device (Auber WSD-1500H-W), and bypassing the internal controls to give the PID direct control of the element, for the first time in many years of smoking with electric smokers I am comfortable it will do what I say without drama.

Not only that, the PID works with any AC controlled analog heat source - for instance controlling a roaster oven to hold a big batch of stock at precisely 185º for 24 hours unattended. A powerful, flexible and accurate tool.

I also have struggled with this on electrics. This year I added the Mailbox Mod, which completely solves the problem. It is simple, cheap and effective - turning the unit into a true cold-smoker, completely eliminating the temperature variable from the “how much smoke” question. Just google “Mailbox mod for Masterbuilt”. Masterbuilt

akdave said in Fancy Summer Sausage:

A work of art, outside and inside, if it tastes as good as it looks $150.00 a pound

High praise, I am honored!

PapaSop said in Fancy Summer Sausage:

KillerNoms
The cutting board is a nice touch as well.

LOL, thanks. It was a gift from my wife.

Jonathon said in Fancy Summer Sausage:

KillerNoms That is some GOOD trussing! … If people are going to continue showing off there trusting (@joehell has a very impressive one as well) we will have to step out game up!

It IS good trussing! I wish I could claim some credit but my sole contribution was getting my credit card numbers right. The casings came that way from the mfr.

My first batch of summer sausage in years. I was very unhappy with my previous setup, so this year I upgraded all of my equipment. This was the maiden voyage for my new MES 340G which I modified to be controlled by an Auber WSD-1500H-W and added an Auber fan, and feed smoke via the “Mailbox” mod. I love this new setup so much my wife is jealous.

Using this “shelter in place” opportunity to up my smoking game (pun intended), and start working through my freezer backlog. I found some unique casings online, and really like the way they look. And the sausage tastes great!

It was a 25lb batch, 14/6/5 lbs respectively of venison, pork butt & pork fatback. My normal ratio is 16/4/5, but I messed up and didn’t thaw out enough venison.

Smoked over a hickory/apple/cherry blend. Om nom nom nom!

Little Baby Teddy There are no safety issues with re-freezing meat. There are potential quality issues but they really don’t apply to ground meats so long as you don’t discard whatever liquid appears when thawing. You just mix it back in.

diver1965 I was certainly generalizing. As someone who obviously understands the subject and treats meat with the care it deserves, you probably are as aware as me that many of our hunting brothers and sisters deviate from good carcass care, and it shows. Apologies if my comment implied you practice poor field care. It’s just a hot-button issue with me (KillerNoms.com/DIYVenison).

I love the unique flavor of Antelope in sagebrush country, but I know some folks find it off-putting. Some waterfowl are not highly prized on the plate. Bears on fish is reportedly pretty nasty. So there are certainly times wholesome meat may need some help to be appreciated by less adventurous eaters. Aside from the usual suspects, heavy spices, sweeteners, etc… I like the idea of using a volume of domestic meat to overwhelm the wild meat. Like Joe Hell said… Pork!

twilliams

Thanks TW.

I came up with another question. My current recipe includes 25oz of water. The summer sausage recipe here (which includes sure-gel) calls for 64oz - quite a difference. I presume that is to “feed” some liquid to the sure-gel so it gets to do it’s binding thing without drying things out. Am I on the right track?

By the way, with a little poking around it turns out ECA has a 2 year shelf life. I presume that is mostly due to the physical integrity of the encapsulation, which is needed for it’s to delay its magic until the right time.

My venison/pork summer sausage recipe includes, in descending order of volume:

Fermento, salt, corn syrup solids, powdered dextrose, spices, cure

After the coarse grind I let it cure in the fridge a couple of days to let the Fermento do it’s thing… then fine grind, stuff & smoke.

I’m considering switching from Fermento to Encapsulated Citric Acid for the tang, to let me skip the 2 day cure, and adding some smoked meat stabilizer (out of stock! boo!) and sure gel, but I have questions:

• If I drop Fermento and the fridge cure, do I still need the corn syrup solids?
• Does EPS have a shelf life? I have some that’s been vacuum sealed for just over 7 years.
• Do corn syrup solids have a shelf life? I have some that’s been vacuum sealed for probably a decade. Yeah, I know. Newly retired and recovering from “hobby interruptus”.