Chewy loose stick casings
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Jonathon or I will respond tomorrow with some more ideas. Lots of good ideas and thoughts here so far though!
I have one question to start though.
Are the casings loose immediately after cooking, or does it start after the ice bath, after cool and dry, or after packaging? And does it get worse through a certain period? When it is getting loose may help us troubleshoot. -
Drake one thing stood out to me in your Meat Block. You’re using 70% Venison and only 30% pork, and if the pork is Boston but then that’s only 30% fat. So .3 * .3 is 9% fat only. Most recipes call for 25 to 30% fat. I’m not sure what that will do to the bind but could see that drying out a lot without much fat.
You didn’t say what you are doing for storage etc after the ice bath. For me, the sticks plump up from ice bath, then I leave them sit and dry on a rack for an hour. Just in that 1 hour, the casing texture changes a lot and begins to wrinkle. At that point, Ive seen a few casings loosen up and get chewier than the instant I took from ice. I bag and vacseal them, and again the texture changes… moisture from center of stick migrates out and re-hydrates the casing. Next day when I open a package up, the sticks are again plump, tight in their casing, solid meat casing bind, and the casing has a nice crisp snap to it again on bite.
Also, I ice bath inside a suctioned bag to keep from introducing water back into the casing, which I personally can see causing casing/meat problems due to different permeability and drying rates. If you dump naked into ice water, and hold them for a good bit, water will of course penetrate and swell the casing and outer mm or so of meat. Which upon drying will reshrink the thing, and IMO has increased potential to thus make shrinking meat pull from casing.
So… if you’re leaving sticks to dry without packaging after ice cooldown, for longer than an hour or so, I can see casing separating and having a chewier texture. I find the nice bite and snap of casing is based as much on being tightly backed by meat, and plump, as anything.
I haven’t ice bathed without bags, naked, and I know a lot of folks do and report success, but to my mind introducing rapid drying in smoker, then rehydration in water, then drying again, is asking for trouble at the boundary layer between two different structures. So I avoid that. Stack 1 deep in a gallon ziplock, suck air out with a straw as you press/seal it closed, plenty good vac to dump in ice. I actually finish sticks in sous vide after 140f or so that way, then ice.
None of this may help, just throwing out my observations on when Ive seen casing separate and become chewier during my process, and the rapic changes there during the hour or so after ice.
Good morning,
Recently, I have been using pork butts 7.5 lbs
And roughly 17.5.lbs of venison. For a 25 lb batch.
When I grind my venison it is very lean.
I have been grinding my pork for my sticks lean. ( meaning I use more straight meat from the pork rather then the fat caps. ) “ could that be the issue”My process
In the mixing and stuffing process I am doing everything just as the videos show.My smoker
I built it myself, it is a double upright stainless freezer.
I dismantled it, put it back together with rock wool insulation. My heat source is a burner from a turkey cooker.
That I regulate the temperature with the regulator at the tank. I have a thermometer in the door of the cabinet. I also use a digital thermometer with probes that I place in the product.
I start out hanging my sticks in smoker vents open with temp thermometer in door reading 120 to 140 for about an hour and I physically feel and look for dryness.
I then slowly increase temp and add smoke over next few hours up to 180 degrees for a target temp of 160 internal temp.
I then place naked in a tote filled with cold water for maybe 20 minutes, I then take them out if the water bath and physically dry them with a towel and let sit for about an hour on the table. At that point I either cut them to length or place in the refrigerator as is until the next day.
Then I vacuum seal.What I have noticed.
When I bring them in from water bath and are drying them you can physically see some of the casings are loose, so prior to vacuum sealing we pull the casings off.“ could the water be the problem “
I have been smoking meat for a lot of years for my family and friends.
Venison, waterfowl, upland game, fish,
And I make up Summer Sausage, Polish, sticks, and Jerky from venison and I have no problem except for the casings on the sticks . all though sometimes the casings on the polish are loose or chewy as well , but not alwaysI appreciate all the advice
Thank you! -
Jonathon or I will respond tomorrow with some more ideas. Lots of good ideas and thoughts here so far though!
I have one question to start though.
Are the casings loose immediately after cooking, or does it start after the ice bath, after cool and dry, or after packaging? And does it get worse through a certain period? When it is getting loose may help us troubleshoot.Good morning,
I can’t say I have noticed it coming out of the smoker.
When I have noticed has been after the cold water bath as I dry them prior to putting in the refrigerator for the evening
When we take them out of the refrigerator the next day to cut to length and vacuum seal we end up pulling the casings off.
The casings easily peel right off.I have posted my entire process.
Not sure what the issue may be.
Other then the water bath. Although I have had sticks turn out and the casings were tight.Stuffing the sticks.
My sticks are not under stuffed nor are they over stuffed.
I love making up product and smoking meat.
Like I say I do it for family and friends, and I have had friends tell me that I should open up a shop.
I don’t want it to become a business I just enjoy doing it for friends and family.I just want to try to figure out the casings.
I appreciate your time and advice.
Thank you! -
Drake I have come up for air from the website for this! It will be one of the only posts I am able to help with for the next few days, that’s more for other people who have been looking for me than anything else. Your problem has intrigued me though. From everything I have read on this post the only “obvious” thing would be starting at 140. However, usually, when we run into issues with this we run into an issue with someone starting at 170, 140 isn’t ideal but you should still not have this repeating problem. So, a few questions here.
You say you put them in a tote of cold water, it needs to be ice water, meaning as close to 50% ice and 50% water as possible. Making it just really cold water isn’t going to do it. The super cold water allows the casing to form and stick to the meat. When you take the meat that is 160 and put it in cold water that meat it going to raise the temp for the water, so your previously very cold water is now luke warm water.This is a really interesting thing where the ice cold water sets the casing to the meat for a snack stick with collagen, and allows it to release for a summer sausage and fibrous casings. I emailed you outside this thread too.
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Drake I have come up for air from the website for this! It will be one of the only posts I am able to help with for the next few days, that’s more for other people who have been looking for me than anything else. Your problem has intrigued me though. From everything I have read on this post the only “obvious” thing would be starting at 140. However, usually, when we run into issues with this we run into an issue with someone starting at 170, 140 isn’t ideal but you should still not have this repeating problem. So, a few questions here.
You say you put them in a tote of cold water, it needs to be ice water, meaning as close to 50% ice and 50% water as possible. Making it just really cold water isn’t going to do it. The super cold water allows the casing to form and stick to the meat. When you take the meat that is 160 and put it in cold water that meat it going to raise the temp for the water, so your previously very cold water is now luke warm water.This is a really interesting thing where the ice cold water sets the casing to the meat for a snack stick with collagen, and allows it to release for a summer sausage and fibrous casings. I emailed you outside this thread too.
I would like to clarify one thing, I want everyone to know that I was looking for advice. I was not talking anything negative towards the casings of either brand, although I like the feel of the waltons Brand better, but that is just my personal opinion. I have used both and have had success with both.
I’m sure it is operator error on my part.
And I would like to that everyone for there advice.
Hopefully I can figure it out.Thank you!
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I would like to clarify one thing, I want everyone to know that I was looking for advice. I was not talking anything negative towards the casings of either brand, although I like the feel of the waltons Brand better, but that is just my personal opinion. I have used both and have had success with both.
I’m sure it is operator error on my part.
And I would like to that everyone for there advice.
Hopefully I can figure it out.Thank you!
Drake
Been thinking about this a lot the last couple day’s. Perplexing to say the least.
Your process looks fine. Like I said, the casing quality would have been my first guess. Since you’ve had success with both that don’t even seem to apply. As I said earlier, I did have issues until using Walton’s casing’s… Problem solved, at least on my end.A couple thoughts…
Fat cap on the butt. Definitely use this. You need some fat in the mixture, the venison alone is lean enough. I’ve always used pork butts a various rates. 80/20, 70/30, 60/40 and have now settled on 50/50. I think the 50/50 gives a better mouth feel and stretches that precious venison a bit.
Ice bath is important as Jonathon said. Not just cold water.
As twilliams said, pretty is not important here. Get the finished product first.
We’ll get this figured out!
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Drake
Been thinking about this a lot the last couple day’s. Perplexing to say the least.
Your process looks fine. Like I said, the casing quality would have been my first guess. Since you’ve had success with both that don’t even seem to apply. As I said earlier, I did have issues until using Walton’s casing’s… Problem solved, at least on my end.A couple thoughts…
Fat cap on the butt. Definitely use this. You need some fat in the mixture, the venison alone is lean enough. I’ve always used pork butts a various rates. 80/20, 70/30, 60/40 and have now settled on 50/50. I think the 50/50 gives a better mouth feel and stretches that precious venison a bit.
Ice bath is important as Jonathon said. Not just cold water.
As twilliams said, pretty is not important here. Get the finished product first.
We’ll get this figured out!
Yes sir, as we speak I have pork butts and venison thawing to get ready for the grinder. Seasoning should be delivered this afternoon. So we will see what happens in the next couple of days.
I will do a little adjusting and hope for the best.I will let you know what happens this time.
Thank you for all the suggestions.
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Yes sir, as we speak I have pork butts and venison thawing to get ready for the grinder. Seasoning should be delivered this afternoon. So we will see what happens in the next couple of days.
I will do a little adjusting and hope for the best.I will let you know what happens this time.
Thank you for all the suggestions.
Drake photos of this up coming adventure please
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Drake good luck
. We’re rooting for you.
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