Fall Off Bone BBQ Chicken
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I would start by brining the chicken. This will help with the moisture of the chicken.
I cooked two smaller turkeys after brining the and cooked the on a pellet grill to the 165. When you let them rest, the temperature will continue to rise. The resting is very important because it helps lock in the moisture in the meat.
Spatchcocking (removing the back bone) helps the chicken cook more evenly. Just remember to press down on the breast of the chicken to help it lay more flat. Your other option is to remove the keel bone in the breast without splitting the chicken in to.
The turkeys I cooked for thanksgiving turned out moist and more flavorful.
Tuffy Stone has a great cookbook I use for giving me guidance on how to cook on my grill. While I don’t always follow the recipe, I do use the cooking techniques on those items I don’t follow his recipe on. I haven’t gone wrong yet.
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When I spatch a chicken I remove the back bone and flip it over. Then I take a knife and as I push down to spread the bird flat I make a small cut into the bone where breast bone meets the meat. It will flatten nicely.
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Yes as you mentioned you’d need to brine it to add moisture to the meat. But I would imagine after a few hours on smoke you could wrap that bird and get that real “fall off the bone” you are looking for while retaining a lot of moisture. I’d even go as far as maybe putting in a foil pan and add a little chicken stock to it. I bet that would come out pretty darn good.
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jrrrr never heard of anyone wrapping chicken. If you cook the breast and the dark meat to the same temp to be able to have it “fall off the bone”, your breast is going to be dry. Dark meat can handle finishing temps in the 180’s, but your breast will be dry. You’d be better off cooking the white and dark meat separately for what you want.
Tex_77 Yep, I agree with you Tex_77. My last chicken was cooked like he described (not a beer can chicken) flat on the grill. Smoked it until the breast was 165 and the dark meat was fall off the bone, good. The breast was nice and moist.
I hate dry breast meat!
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Spatchcock whole chicken, inject and/or brine, smoke/roast at 230 until thickest meat is 165F (USDA) and let rest for 15 minutes. I have never had a dry chicken when following this procedure.
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I can smoke a spatched poultry in a smoker temp of 225 and with the probe temp hitting 153/155 in the thick of the breast meat. I will have a perfect bird that is safe of pathogens according to the standards.
"What Is The Ideal Smoked Chicken Done Temperature?
Smoked Chicken Leg Quarters Are Better When Smoked To 175°F
Compared to other parts of the chicken, the quality of the breast meat is most affected by higher temperatures. At 145° (and held there for about eight and a half minutes), the meat is completely opaque, slightly tinged with pink and very tender and juicy. For my tastes, it’s not quite done enough.At 150° the meat is totally white and a bit firmer. And it’s still nice and juicy. As the temperature of the chicken breast rises to 155 degrees, the meat fibers continue to contract, squeezing out more moisture. At 160 the smoked chicken breast is at the precipice of becoming dry and stringy.
My personal preference is to shoot for a smoked chicken breast temp of 155° to 157°F. It’s juicy and tender, and looks the way “properly” cooked chicken should look.
But no matter what the target temperature, if it’s below 165°F, it has to be held at that lower temperature for the required amount of time."
“https://www.smoker-cooking.com/temperature-of-smoked-chicken.html”I also have a table that goes many years back that I learned to cook chicken over 20 years ago, that has served this home very well! Based on science as well as taste!
“SWMBO” (she who must be obeyed) My wife will not allow me to serve dry poultry or pork and anything more than the medium rare red meats in my home!
Denny O’s-Smokey Bones
I’d rather be sit’in in a boat and thinking about God,
Than sit’n in church and thinking about fish’in! -
I can smoke a spatched poultry in a smoker temp of 225 and with the probe temp hitting 153/155 in the thick of the breast meat. I will have a perfect bird that is safe of pathogens according to the standards.
"What Is The Ideal Smoked Chicken Done Temperature?
Smoked Chicken Leg Quarters Are Better When Smoked To 175°F
Compared to other parts of the chicken, the quality of the breast meat is most affected by higher temperatures. At 145° (and held there for about eight and a half minutes), the meat is completely opaque, slightly tinged with pink and very tender and juicy. For my tastes, it’s not quite done enough.At 150° the meat is totally white and a bit firmer. And it’s still nice and juicy. As the temperature of the chicken breast rises to 155 degrees, the meat fibers continue to contract, squeezing out more moisture. At 160 the smoked chicken breast is at the precipice of becoming dry and stringy.
My personal preference is to shoot for a smoked chicken breast temp of 155° to 157°F. It’s juicy and tender, and looks the way “properly” cooked chicken should look.
But no matter what the target temperature, if it’s below 165°F, it has to be held at that lower temperature for the required amount of time."
“https://www.smoker-cooking.com/temperature-of-smoked-chicken.html”I also have a table that goes many years back that I learned to cook chicken over 20 years ago, that has served this home very well! Based on science as well as taste!
“SWMBO” (she who must be obeyed) My wife will not allow me to serve dry poultry or pork and anything more than the medium rare red meats in my home!
Denny O said in Fall Off Bone BBQ Chicken:
But no matter what the target temperature, if it’s below 165°F, it has to be held at that lower temperature for the required amount of time."
“https://www.smoker-cooking.com/temperature-of-smoked-chicken.html”While I completely agree the process of pasteurization one has to be extremely vigilant to make sure that the target temps are actually held at the specific time required. Most people that I have witnessed just do not have the attention span that is required to monitor their cook that closely, so for the most part I recommend the pasteurization with extreme caution.
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Denny O said in Fall Off Bone BBQ Chicken:
But no matter what the target temperature, if it’s below 165°F, it has to be held at that lower temperature for the required amount of time."
“https://www.smoker-cooking.com/temperature-of-smoked-chicken.html”While I completely agree the process of pasteurization one has to be extremely vigilant to make sure that the target temps are actually held at the specific time required. Most people that I have witnessed just do not have the attention span that is required to monitor their cook that closely, so for the most part I recommend the pasteurization with extreme caution.
DRAFT COMPLIANCE GUIDELINES FOR READY-TO-EAT MEAT AND POULTRY PRODUCTS
On February 27, 2001, FSIS published a proposed rule ``Performance Standards for the Production of Processed Meat and Poultry Products’’ (66 FR 12590). The proposed regulations include lethality and stabilization performance standards, Listeria testing requirements, and the rescission of requirements regarding trichina in pork products. To assist establishments in understanding these requirements, FSIS is issuing draft compliance guidelines. FSIS requests comment on these guidelines. These guidelines are based on previous Agency regulations, published scientific, challenge studies and other procedures validated to achieve the performance standards. Covered RTE products include cooked, fermented, salt-cured and dried meat and poultry products.
Except for thermally-processed, commercially-sterile products, the performance standards for lethality for all ready-to-eat (RTE) products require a 6.5 log10 reduction of Salmonella throughout finished meat products and a 7.0 log10 reduction of Salmonella throughout finished products that contain poultry. In addition, RTE fermented products that contain beef are required to have 5 log10 reduction of E. coli O157:H7 throughout. Except for thermally-processed, commercially-sterile products, the performance standards for stabilization require no growth of Clostridium botulinum and no more than 1 log10 growth Clostridium perfringens throughout all RTE meat and poultry products.
Compliance Guidelines For Meeting Lethality Performance Standards For Cooked Ready-to-eat Meat and Poultry Products
With the 1999 final rule, “Performance Standards for the Production of Certain Meat and Poultry Products” (, 64 FR 732 ), applicable to cooked beef, roast beef, chunked and formed roasts, corned beef and poultry products, the Agency included compliance guidelines for lethality (Appendix A of the final rule). These compliance guidelines include times and temperatures to achieve a 6.5 log10 and 7.0 log10 reduction of Salmonella in meat products. For poultry products, an endpoint temperature for cooking to achieve a 7.0 log10 reduction of Salmonella is recommended. These same compliance tables could be used for all cooked RTE meat, including RTE cooked meat patties, because the proposed lethality performance standards are the same as those already in place for other RTE products.
Similarly, the compliance guidelines for stabilization performance standards found in Appendix B of the final rule, could also be used for compliance with the proposed RTE rule. These compliance guidelines will achieve the requirement of no growth of Clostridium botulinum and no more than 1 log10 growth Clostridium perfringens. The compliance guidelines in Appendix A and Appendix B of that rule are reproduced here.
GUIDELINES FOR COOKED MEAT PRODUCTS
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Cooked beef, pork, lamb and other meat products can be prepared using one of the following time and temperature combinations to meet either a 6.5-log10 or 7-log10 reduction of Salmonella. The stated temperature is the minimum that must be achieved and maintained in all parts of each piece of meat for a least the stated time:
Minimum Internal Minimum processing time in
Temperature minutes or seconds after
minimum temperature is reachedDegrees Degrees 6.5-log10 7-log10 Fahrenheit Centigrade Lethality Lethality 130 54.4 112 min. 121 min. 131 55.0 89 min. 97 min. 132 55.6 71 min. 77 min. 133 56.1 56 min. 62 min. 134 56.7 45 min. 47 min. 135 57.2 36 min. 37 min. 136 57.8 28 min. 32 min. 137 58.4 23 min. 24 min. 138 58.9 18 min. 19 min. 139 59.5 15 min. 15 min. 140 60.0 12 min. 12 min. 141 60.6 9 min. 10 min. 142 61.1 8 min. 8 min. 143 61.7 6 min. 6 min. 144 62.2 5 min. 5 min. 145 62.8 4 min.* 4 min.* 146 63.3 169 sec. 182 sec. 147 63.9 134 sec. 144 sec. 148 64.4 107 sec. 115 sec. 149 65.0 85 sec. 91 sec. 150 65.6 67 sec. 72 sec. 151 66.1 54 sec. 58 sec. 152 66.7 43 sec. 46 sec. 153 67.2 34 sec. 37 sec. 154 67.8 27 sec. 29 sec. 155 68.3 22 sec. 23 sec. 156 68.9 17 sec. 19 sec. 157 69.4 14 sec. 15 sec. 158 70.0 0 sec.** 0 sec.** 159 70.6 0 sec.** 0 sec.** 160 71.1 0 sec ** 0 sec.**
- Past regulations have listed the minimum processing time for roast beef cooked to 145°F as “Instantly.” However, due to their large size, most of these roasts dwell at 145°F, or even at higher temperatures, for at least 4 minutes after the minimum internal temperature is reached. FSIS has revised this time/temperature table to reflect this and emphasizes that, to better ensure compliance with the performance standard, establishments should ensure a dwell time of at least 4 minutes if 145°F is the minimum internal temperature employed.
**The required lethalities are achieved instantly when the internal temperature of a cooked meat product reaches 158°F or above.
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Cooked beef, including sectioned and formed roasts and chunked and formed roasts, and cooked corned beef should be moist cooked throughout the process or, in the case of roast beef or corned beef to be roasted, cooked as in paragraph (3) of this compliance guide. Moist cooking may be accomplished by: a) placing the meat in a sealed, moisture impermeable bag, removing the excess air, and cooking; b) completely immersing the meat, unbagged in water throughout the entire cooking process; or c) using a sealed oven or steam injection to raise the relative humidity above 90 percent throughout the cooking process.
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Roast beef or corned beef to be roasted can be cooked by one of the following methods:
• Heating roasts of 10 pounds or more in an oven maintained at 250 °F (121 °C) or higher throughout a process achieving one of the time/temperature combinations in (1) above;
• Heating roasts of any size to a minimum internal temperature of 145 °F (62.8 °C) in an oven maintained at any temperature if the relative humidity of the oven is maintained either by continuously introducing steam for 50 percent of the cooking time or by use of a sealed oven for over 50 percent of the cooking time, or if the relative humidity of the oven is maintained at 90 percent or above for at least 25 percent of the total cooking time, but in no case less than 1 hour; or
• Heating roasts of any size in an oven maintained at any temperature that will satisfy the internal temperature and time combinations of the above chart of this compliance guide if the relative humidity of the oven is maintained at 90 percent or above for at least 25 percent of the total cooking time, but in no case less than 1 hour. The relative humidity may be achieved be use of steam injection or sealed ovens capable of producing and maintaining the required relative humidity. -
Establishments should have sufficient monitoring equipment, including recording devices, to ensure that the time (accuracy assured within 1 minute), the temperature (accuracy assured within 1 °F), and relative humidity (accuracy assured within 5 percent) limits of these processes are being met. Data from the recording devices should be made available to FSIS program employees upon request.
Guidelines for Cooked Poultry Rolls and Other Cooked Poultry Products -
Cooked poultry rolls and other cooked poultry products should reach an internal temperature of at least 160 °F prior to being removed from the cooking medium. However, cured and smoked poultry rolls and other cured and smoked poultry should reach an internal temperature of at least 155 °F prior to being removed from the cooking medium. Cooked ready-to-eat product to which heat will be applied incidental to a subsequent processing procedure may be removed from the media for such processing provided that it is immediately fully cooked to 160°F internal temperature.
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Establishments producing cooked poultry rolls and other cooked poultry products should have sufficient monitoring equipment, including recording devices, to assure that the temperature (accuracy assured within 1 °F) limits of these processes are being met. Data from the recording devices should be made available to FSIS program employees upon request.
New Time-Temperature Combinations for Cooking RTE Poultry
An FSIS employee recently co-authored an article entitled “Modeling non-linear survival curves to calculate thermal inactivation of Salmonella in poultry of different fat levels” soon to be published in a scientific journal. In the article, the authors developed a formula for predicting time/temperature combinations for achieving a 7-log10 reduction of Salmonella in RTE poultry, as well as standard errors for these predictions. The times within the new time/temperature combinations, derived using this formula, are significantly higher than those assumed to be effective and published in our current compliance guide. FSIS requests comment on these new time/temperature combinations for RTE poultry.
Times for given temperature, fat level, and species needed to obtain
7-log10 lethality------------------------------------ fat%=1 ------------------------------------
Temperature time for time for F Chicken unit . . . Turkey unit 136 63.3 min 64 min 137 50.1 min 51.9 min 138 39.7 min 42.2 min 139 31.6 min 34.4 min 140 25.2 min 28.1 min 141 20.1 min 23 min 142 16.1 min 18.9 min 143 13 min 15.5 min 144 10.4 min 12.8 min 145 8.4 min 10.5 min 146 6.8 min 8.7 min 147 5.5 min 7.1 min 148 4.4 min 5.8 min 149 3.5 min 4.7 min 150 2.7 min 3.8 min 151 2.1 min 3 min 152 1.5 min 2.3 min 153 1.2 min 1.8 min 154 55.9 sec 1.5 min 155 44.2 sec 1.2 min 156 35 sec 59 sec 157 27.7 sec 47.9 sec 158 21.9 sec 38.8 sec 159 17.3 sec 31.5 sec 160 13.7 sec 25.6 sec 161 10.8 sec 20.8 sec 162 <10.0 sec 16.9 sec 163 <10.0 sec 13.7 sec 164 <10.0 sec 11.1 sec 165 <10.0 sec <10.0 sec Times for given temperature, fat level, and species needed to obtain 7-log10 lethality------------------------------------ fat%=2 ------------------------------------
Temperature time for time for F Chicken unit . . . Turkey unit 136 64.5 min 64.3 min 137 51 min 52.2 min 138 40.5 min 42.5 min 139 32.2 min 34.6 min 140 25.7 min 28.3 min 141 20.5 min 23.2 min 142 16.4 min 19 min 143 13.2 min 15.6 min 144 10.6 min 12.8 min 145 8.6 min 10.6 min 146 6.9 min 8.7 min 147 5.5 min 7.1 min 148 4.4 min 5.8 min 149 3.5 min 4.7 min 150 2.7 min 3.7 min 151 2 min 2.9 min 152 1.5 min 2.3 min 153 1.2 min 1.8 min 154 56.9 sec 1.5 min 155 45 sec 1.2 min 156 35.6 sec 59.3 sec 157 28.2 sec 48.1 sec 158 22.3 sec 39 sec 159 17.6 sec 31.7 sec 160 14 sec 25.7 sec 161 11 sec 20.9 sec 162 <10.0 sec 16.9 sec 163 <10.0 sec 13.7 sec 164 <10.0 sec 11.2 sec 165 <10.0 sec <10.0 sec Times for given temperature, fat level, and species needed to obtain 7-log10 lethality------------------------------------ fat%=3 ------------------------------------
Temperature time for time for F Chicken unit . . . Turkey unit 136 65.7 min 64.6 min 137 52.1 min 52.4 min 138 41.3 min 42.7 min 139 32.9 min 34.9 min 140 26.2 min 28.5 min 141 21 min 23.3 min 142 16.8 min 19.1 min 143 13.5 min 15.7 min 144 10.8 min 12.9 min 145 8.7 min 10.6 min 146 7 min 8.7 min 147 5.6 min 7.1 min 148 4.5 min 5.8 min 149 3.5 min 4.7 min 150 2.7 min 3.7 min 151 2 min 2.9 min 152 1.5 min 2.3 min 153 1.2 min 1.9 min 154 58 sec 1.5 min 155 45.9 sec 1.2 min 156 36.3 sec 59.5 sec 157 28.7 sec 48.3 sec 158 22.7 sec 39.2 sec 159 18 sec 31.8 sec 160 14.2 sec 25.8 sec 161 11.2 sec 21 sec 162 <10.0 sec 17 sec 163 <10.0 sec 13.8 sec 164 <10.0 sec 11.2 sec 165 <10.0 sec <10.0 sec Times for given temperature, fat level, and species needed to obtain 7-log10 lethality------------------------------------ fat%=4 ------------------------------------
Temperature time for time for F Chicken unit . . . Turkey unit 136 67 min 64.9 min 137 53.2 min 52.8 min 138 42.2 min 43 min 139 33.6 min 35.1 min 140 26.8 min 28.7 min 141 21.5 min 23.5 min 142 17.2 min 19.3 min 143 13.8 min 15.9 min 144 11.1 min 13 min 145 8.9 min 10.7 min 146 7.2 min 8.8 min 147 5.7 min 7.2 min 148 4.5 min 5.8 min 149 3.6 min 4.7 min 150 2.7 min 3.7 min 151 2.1 min 2.9 min 152 1.6 min 2.3 min 153 1.2 min 1.9 min 154 59.1 sec 1.5 min 155 46.8 sec 1.2 min 156 37 sec 59.8 sec 157 29.3 sec 48.5 sec 158 23.2 sec 39.4 sec 159 18.3 sec 32 sec 160 14.5 sec 26 sec 161 11.5 sec 21.1 sec 162 <10.0 sec 17.1 sec 163 <10.0 sec 13.9 sec 164 <10.0 sec 11.3 sec 165 <10.0 sec <10.0 sec Times for given temperature, fat level, and species needed to obtain 7-log10 lethality------------------------------------ fat%=5 ------------------------------------
Temperature time for time for F Chicken unit . . . Turkey unit 136 68.4 min 65.3 min 137 54.3 min 53.2 min 138 43.2 min 43.4 min 139 34.4 min 35.4 min 140 27.5 min 29 min 141 22 min 23.8 min 142 17.6 min 19.5 min 143 14.2 min 16.1 min 144 11.4 min 13.2 min 145 9.2 min 10.8 min 146 7.4 min 8.9 min 147 5.9 min 7.3 min 148 4.7 min 5.9 min 149 3.6 min 4.7 min 150 2.8 min 3.7 min 151 2.1 min 2.9 min 152 1.6 min 2.3 min 153 1.3 min 1.9 min 154 1 min 1.5 min 155 47.7 sec 1.2 min 156 37.7 sec 1 min 157 29.8 sec 48.8 sec 158 23.6 sec 39.6 sec 159 18.7 sec 32.1 sec 160 14.8 sec 26.1 sec 161 11.7 sec 21.2 sec 162 <10.0 sec 17.2 sec 163 <10.0 sec 13.9 sec 164 <10.0 sec 11.3 sec 165 <10.0 sec <10.0 sec Times for given temperature, fat level, and species needed to obtain 7-log10 lethality------------------------------------ fat%=6 ------------------------------------
Temperature time for time for F Chicken unit . . . Turkey unit 136 69.9 min 65.8 min 137 55.5 min 53.6 min 138 44.2 min 43.8 min 139 35.2 min 35.8 min 140 28.2 min 29.3 min 141 22.6 min 24.1 min 142 18.1 min 19.8 min 143 14.6 min 16.3 min 144 11.8 min 13.4 min 145 9.5 min 11 min 146 7.6 min 9 min 147 6.1 min 7.4 min 148 4.8 min 6 min 149 3.8 min 4.8 min 150 2.9 min 3.8 min 151 2.1 min 2.9 min 152 1.6 min 2.3 min 153 1.3 min 1.9 min 154 1 min 1.5 min 155 48.6 sec 1.2 min 156 38.4 sec 1 min 157 30.4 sec 49 sec 158 24 sec 39.8 sec 159 19 sec 32.3 sec 160 15 sec 26.2 sec 161 11.9 sec 21.3 sec 162 <10.0 sec 17.3 sec 163 <10.0 sec 14 sec 164 <10.0 sec 11.4 sec 165 <10.0 sec <10.0 sec Times for given temperature, fat level, and species needed to obtain 7-log10 lethality------------------------------------ fat%=7 ------------------------------------
Temperature time for time for F Chicken unit . . . Turkey unit 136 71.4 min 66.3 min 137 56.8 min 54.1 min 138 45.3 min 44.2 min 139 36.2 min 36.2 min 140 29 min 29.7 min 141 23.2 min 24.4 min 142 18.7 min 20.1 min 143 15.1 min 16.6 min 144 12.2 min 13.7 min 145 9.8 min 11.3 min 146 7.9 min 9.2 min 147 6.3 min 7.5 min 148 5 min 6.1 min 149 3.9 min 4.9 min 150 3 min 3.9 min 151 2.2 min 3 min 152 1.7 min 2.3 min 153 1.3 min 1.9 min 154 1 min 1.5 min 155 49.5 sec 1.2 min 156 39.2 sec 1 min 157 31 sec 49.2 sec 158 24.5 sec 40 sec 159 19.4 sec 32.4 sec 160 15.3 sec 26.3 sec 161 12.1 sec 21.4 sec 162 9.6 sec 17.3 sec 163 <10.0 sec 14.1 sec 164 <10.0 sec 11.4 sec 165 <10.0 sec <10.0 sec Times for given temperature, fat level, and species needed to obtain 7-log10 lethality------------------------------------ fat%=8 ------------------------------------
Temperature time for time for F Chicken unit . . . Turkey unit 136 73 min 66.9 min 137 58.2 min 54.7 min 138 46.4 min 44.8 min 139 37.2 min 36.7 min 140 29.8 min 30.2 min 141 24 min 24.9 min 142 19.4 min 20.5 min 143 15.6 min 17 min 144 12.6 min 14 min 145 10.2 min 11.5 min 146 8.2 min 9.5 min 147 6.6 min 7.7 min 148 5.2 min 6.3 min 149 4.1 min 5 min 150 3.1 min 4 min 151 2.3 min 3.1 min 152 1.7 min 2.3 min 153 1.3 min 1.9 min 154 1.1 min 1.5 min 155 50.4 sec 1.3 min 156 39.9 sec 1 min 157 31.6 sec 49.5 sec 158 25 sec 40.1 sec 159 19.8 sec 32.6 sec 160 15.6 sec 26.4 sec 161 12.4 sec 21.5 sec 162 9.8 sec 17.4 sec 163 <10.0 sec 14.1 sec 164 <10.0 sec 11.5 sec 165 <10.0 sec <10.0 sec Times for given temperature, fat level, and species needed to obtain 7-log10 lethality------------------------------------ fat%=9 ------------------------------------
Temperature time for time for F Chicken unit . . . Turkey unit 136 74.8 min 67.6 min 137 59.7 min 55.3 min 138 47.7 min 45.4 min 139 38.3 min 37.3 min 140 30.8 min 30.8 min 141 24.9 min 25.5 min 142 20.1 min 21.1 min 143 16.3 min 17.4 min 144 13.2 min 14.4 min 145 10.7 min 11.9 min 146 8.6 min 9.8 min 147 6.9 min 8 min 148 5.5 min 6.5 min 149 4.3 min 5.2 min 150 3.3 min 4.1 min 151 2.5 min 3.2 min 152 1.8 min 2.4 min 153 1.4 min 1.9 min 154 1.1 min 1.5 min 155 51.4 sec 1.3 min 156 40.7 sec 1 min 157 32.2 sec 49.7 sec 158 25.4 sec 40.3 sec 159 20.1 sec 32.7 sec 160 15.9 sec 26.6 sec 161 12.6 sec 21.6 sec 162 10 sec 17.5 sec 163 <10.0 sec 14.2 sec 164 <10.0 sec 11.5 sec 165 <10.0 sec <10.0 sec Times for given temperature, fat level, and species needed to obtain 7-log10 lethality----------------------------------- fat%=10 ------------------------------------
Temperature time for time for F Chicken unit . . . Turkey unit 136 76.7 min 68.4 min 137 61.4 min 56.2 min 138 49.2 min 46.2 min 139 39.6 min 38.1 min 140 32 min 31.5 min 141 25.9 min 26.2 min 142 21 min 21.7 min 143 17.1 min 18 min 144 13.9 min 15 min 145 11.3 min 12.4 min 146 9.1 min 10.2 min 147 7.4 min 8.4 min 148 5.8 min 6.8 min 149 4.6 min 5.4 min 150 3.5 min 4.3 min 151 2.6 min 3.3 min 152 1.9 min 2.5 min 153 1.4 min 1.9 min 154 1.1 min 1.6 min 155 52.4 sec 1.3 min 156 41.4 sec 1 min 157 32.8 sec 49.9 sec 158 25.9 sec 40.5 sec 159 20.5 sec 32.9 sec 160 16.2 sec 26.7 sec 161 12.8 sec 21.7 sec 162 10.2 sec 17.6 sec 163 <10.0 sec 14.3 sec 164 <10.0 sec 11.6 sec 165 <10.0 sec <10.0 sec Times for given temperature, fat level, and species needed to obtain 7-log10 lethality----------------------------------- fat%=11 ------------------------------------
Temperature time for time for F Chicken unit . . . Turkey unit 136 78.9 min 69.5 min 137 63.3 min 57.2 min 138 50.9 min 47.2 min 139 41.1 min 39.1 min 140 33.4 min 32.5 min 141 27.1 min 27.1 min 142 22.1 min 22.6 min 143 18.1 min 18.8 min 144 14.8 min 15.7 min 145 12.1 min 13 min 146 9.8 min 10.8 min 147 7.9 min 8.8 min 148 6.3 min 7.2 min 149 4.9 min 5.8 min 150 3.8 min 4.5 min 151 2.9 min 3.5 min 152 2.1 min 2.7 min 153 1.4 min 1.9 min 154 1.1 min 1.6 min 155 53.4 sec 1.3 min 156 42.2 sec 1 min 157 33.4 sec 50.2 sec 158 26.4 sec 40.7 sec 159 20.9 sec 33 sec 160 16.5 sec 26.8 sec 161 13.1 sec 21.8 sec 162 10.3 sec 17.7 sec 163 <10.0 sec 14.3 sec 164 <10.0 sec 11.6 sec 165 <10.0 sec <10.0 sec Times for given temperature, fat level, and species needed to obtain 7-log10 lethality----------------------------------- fat%=12 ------------------------------------
Temperature time for time for F Chicken unit . . . Turkey unit 136 81.4 min 70.8 min 137 65.5 min 58.5 min 138 52.9 min 48.5 min 139 43 min 40.4 min 140 35 min 33.7 min 141 28.7 min 28.2 min 142 23.5 min 23.7 min 143 19.3 min 19.8 min 144 15.9 min 16.6 min 145 13 min 13.8 min 146 10.6 min 11.5 min 147 8.6 min 9.4 min 148 6.8 min 7.7 min 149 5.4 min 6.2 min 150 4.2 min 4.9 min 151 3.1 min 3.8 min 152 2.3 min 2.8 min 153 1.6 min 2.1 min 154 1.1 min 1.6 min 155 54.4 sec 1.3 min 156 43 sec 1 min 157 34 sec 50.4 sec 158 26.9 sec 40.9 sec 159 21.3 sec 33.2 sec 160 16.9 sec 26.9 sec 161 13.3 sec 21.9 sec 162 10.5 sec 17.7 sec 163 <10.0 sec 14.4 sec 164 <10.0 sec 11.7 sec 165 <10.0 sec <10.0 secHeating Deviations and Slow Come-Up Time
Determining the appropriate disposition of products following heating deviations can be even more difficult than determining the disposition of product after a cooling deviation. Heating deviations, which most often involve slow come-up time or an inordinate dwell time within the optimum temperature range for microorganism growth, can foster the multiplication of many pathogens. This multiplication sometimes can be so prodigious that even re-cooking may be ineffective in rendering the product safe. Also, certain toxigenic bacteria can release toxins into the product. Some of these toxins, such as those of Staphylococcus aureus, are extremely heat stable and are not inactivated by normal re-cooking temperatures.Further, the sampling of product following a heating deviation may not yield sufficient information to determine the safety of the product in question. Heating deviations can favor the multiplication of many types of bacteria. It would be difficult and expensive to sample for all of them.
Depending on the circumstances, establishments may want to use computer modeling to estimate the relative multiplication of bacteria. For example, in a past incident involving an extreme heating deviation, product was put in an oven in which the temperature was inadvertently set to 95°F for about 12 hours. Computer modeling was easily applied in this case because much of the dwell time was at one temperature. The Agency determined that within a 6-hour time frame (with other growth conditions assumed to be favorable), the relative multiplication of many pathogens of concern could have exceeded five logs. Clearly the product could not be salvaged by reprocessing and was therefore destroyed.
Under changing conditions of temperature, however, computer modeling becomes more difficult. One approach is to average lag/log times over small increments such as 5° and add these times to get an approximation of possible total relative growth over a larger increment of time. Establishments must keep in mind that the population of bacteria before processing is generally unknown and that assumptions in the high range often are used as input parameters in the modeling.
Establishments should ultimately rely upon the expertise of a processing authority to determine the severity of heating deviations and subsequent appropriate disposition of the product in question. Dwell times of greater than 6 hours in the 50°F to 130°F range should be viewed as especially hazardous, as this temperature range can foster substantial growth of many pathogens of concern. In addition, knowledge of the specific product and factors that would favor or inhibit the growth of various bacteria is essential.
Computer Modeling Program Availability
The Microbial Food Safety Research Unit of the Eastern Regional Research Center, USDA Agriculture Research Service, has developed a bacterial pathogen modeling program. Entitled “Pathogen Modeling Program-Version 5.1 for Windows,” it is available on the Internet from http://www.arserrc.gov Other programs may be available commercially.
Customized Processes
Although compliance with these guidelines will yield product that meets the lethality performance standards, some establishments may want to develop customized processing procedures that meet the lethality performance standards: 6.510 log of Salmonella in ready-to-eat meat products and 7 log10 in ready-to-eat poultry products. Establishments also may want to develop and implement processes using alternative lethalities. Keep in mind, however, that all processes also must achieve, throughout the product, an appropriate reduction of other pathogens of concern and their toxins or toxic metabolites.
Establishments or their process authorities may develop customized procedures or alternative lethalities that meet the performance standards by using information obtained from the literature or by comparing their methods with established processes. However, statistical calculations on results obtained from sampling alone are not sufficient to demonstrate that product satisfies reduced initial product conditions, or that product meets the performance standards. Rather, the demonstration should be based on scientific rationale, supported by experimental data.One of the most definitive tools at the disposal of an establishment or processing authority is the challenge study. Although challenge studies must be conducted in the laboratory rather than the establishment, they should be designed and conducted to accurately simulate the commercial process. Challenge studies should be undertaken by individuals who have a thorough knowledge of microbiological laboratory methods used in salmonella research. A cocktail of various serotypes of Salmonella should be used in an inoculated pack study to demonstrate that the lethality performance standard is met. Relatively heat resistant pathogenic strains should be included in the cocktail to develop a worst case. The serotypes/strains selected should be among those that have been historically implicated in an appreciable number of outbreaks.
Stabilization Guidelines
It is very important that cooling be continuous through the given time/temperature control points. Excessive dwell time in the range of 130° to 80°F is especially hazardous, as this is the range of most rapid growth for the clostridia. Therefore cooling between these temperature control points should be as rapid as possible.- During cooling, the product’s maximum internal temperature should not remain between 130°F and 80°F for more than 1.5 hours nor between 80°F and 40°F for more than 5 hours. This cooling rate can be applied universally to cooked products (e.g., partially cooked or fully cooked, intact or non-intact, meat or poultry) and is preferable to (2) below.
- Over the past several years, FSIS has allowed product to be cooled according to the following procedures, which are based upon older data: chilling should begin within 90 minutes after the cooking cycle is completed. All product should be chilled from 120°F (48°C) to 55°F (12.7°C) in no more than 6 hours. Chilling should then continue until the product reaches 40°F (4.4°C); the product should not be shipped until it reaches 40°F (4.4°C).
This second cooling guideline is taken from the former (“Requirements for the production of cooked beef, roast beef, and cooked corned beef”, 9 CFR 318.17(h)(10)). It yields a significantly smaller margin of safety than the first cooling guideline above, especially if the product cooled is non-intact product. If an establishment uses this older cooling guideline, it should ensure that cooling is as rapid as possible, especially between 120 °F and 80°F, and monitor the cooling closely to prevent deviation. If product remains between 120 °F and 80 °F more than one hour, compliance with the performance standard is less certain.
- The following process may be used for the slow cooling of ready-to-eat meat and poultry cured with nitrite. Products cured with a minimum of 100 ppm in-going sodium nitrite may be cooled so that the maximum internal temperature is reduced from 130 to 80 °F in 5 hours and from 80 to 45 °F in 10 hours (15 hours total cooling time).
This cooling process provides a narrow margin of safety. If a cooling deviation occurs, an establishment should assume that their process has exceeded the performance standard for controlling the growth of Clostridium perfringens and take corrective action. The presence of the nitrite and salt, however, should ensure compliance with the performance standard for Clostridium botulinum.
Establishments that incorporate a “pasteurization” treatment after lethality and stabilization treatments (e.g., applying heat to the surface of a cooled ready-to-eat product after slicing) and then re-stabilize (cool) the product should assess the cumulative growth of C. perfringens in their HACCP plans. That is, the entire process should allow no more than 1-log10 total growth of C. perfringens in the finished product. When employing a post-processing “pasteurization,” establishments may want to keep in mind that at temperatures of 130 °F or greater, C. perfringens will not grow.
Support documentation for this process was filed by the National Food Processors Association on April 14, 1999. It is available for review in the FSIS Docket Room, Room 102, Cotton Annex, 300 12th St., SW, Washington, DC 20250-3700.
Cooling Deviations
In spite of the best efforts of an establishment to maintain process control, cooling deviations will occasionally occur. Power failures or breakdowns of refrigeration equipment cause situations that cannot always be anticipated. However, it is important that the establishment plan how to cope with such eventualities before they occur.The recommended time/temperature combinations in these guidelines incorporate a small safety margin. Therefore, an occasional small lapse in and of itself may not cause a problem in every instance. If the cause of a small cooling deviation is not traced and corrected when first noticed, however, the problem will likely recur and possibly become more frequent and more severe. The processor should consider an occasional small deviation an opportunity to find and correct a control problem. Of course, a large deviation or continual small ones will always constitute unacceptable risk.
After it is determined that a cooling deviation has occurred, the processor should:
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Notify the inspector, the QC unit, and other concerned units, such as refrigeration maintenance and production.
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Hold the involved product and determine the potential adulteration by bacteria, particularly clostridial pathogens. If adulteration is confirmed or appears to be likely, inform the inspector.
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Postpone further product manufacturing using that chill facility until the processor has:
a. determined the cause of the deviation;
b. completed adjustments to assure that the deviation will not recur; and
c. informed the inspector and the production units of the determinations and adjustments and make any needed amendments in the written processing procedures.
Computer modeling and sampling
In the event that a cooling deviation does occur, the product may often be salvaged if the results of computer modeling or sampling can ensure product safety. Because of a lack of information concerning the distribution of C. perfringens in product, sampling may not be the best recourse for determining the disposition of product following cooling deviations. However, computer modeling can be a useful tool in assessing the severity of a cooling deviation. While computer modeling cannot provide an exact determination of the possible amount clostridial growth, it can provide a useful estimate.
A technical document (available from the FSIS Docket Room) provides description of the calculations that are used to estimate relative growth.
With careful continuous monitoring of the heating and cooling time/temperature profile of each lot, there will always be many available data points, enhancing the accuracy of computer modeling. Conversely, when there are few documented time/temperature data points, the accuracy of the modeling decreases markedly. If time/temperature monitoring has not been conducted through the end point internal product temperatures of 40° F or less, sampling is not an option and the product should be destroyed.
Options after computer determination of cooling deviation severity.
If computer modeling suggests that the cooling deviation would likely result in more than one log increase in C. perfringens, without any multiplication (remains in lag phase) of C. botulinum, then the establishment can choose to recook or sample the product.Recook only when:
• All product was either immediately refrigerated after the deviation or can be immediately recooked after the deviation; and
• The recooking procedure can achieve a final internal product temperature of at least 149°F (65°C) for two minutes. Subsequent to recooking, the product must be cooled in strict conformance to existing guidelines. When the product is to be reworked with another raw product, the recooking procedure for the combined product must achieve a minimum internal temperature of 149°F, to address the cooling deviation, and further to an increased time\temperature if necessary to be in accord with any other requirement relative to microbiological safety for the intended final product. Subsequent to recooking, the product must be cooled in strict conformance to existing guidelines.
Custom Stabilization Processes
While compliance with the guidelines above will yield product that meets the cooling performance standards, some establishments may want to develop customized stabilization procedures. Because customized process schedules must be validated by process authorities for efficacy, most establishments will probably rely upon processing authorities to develop such procedures, demonstrate their efficacy, and attest to their safety. Process authorities may obtain information from the literature, or likely compare peer reviewed methods in determining safe procedures that meet the performance standards.Probably one of the most definitive tools at the disposal of the processing authority is the inoculated pack study. Such studies should, of course, be conducted only in the laboratory, not in the plant. Further, such studies should be undertaken by individuals who have a thorough knowledge of laboratory methods used in clostridial research. C. perfringens can be used alone in an inoculated pack study to demonstrate that the cooling performance standard is met for both microorganisms, C. perfringens, and C. botulinum. This is because conditions of time/temperature that would limit the growth of C. perfringens to one log or less would also prevent multiplication of C. botulinum, which is much slower. A cocktail of various strains of C. perfringens spores is often used for this purpose. Relatively “fast” toxigenic strains should be used to develop a worst case. However, the strains selected should be among those that have been historically implicated in an appreciable number of outbreaks, especially in products similar to those being prepared in the establishment
COMPLIANCE GUIDELINES FOR FERMENTED PRODUCTS
The proposed performance standards for lethality of fermented RTE products require a 6.5 log10 reduction of Salmonella throughout the finished meat product and a 7.0 log10 reduction of Salmonella throughout the finished poultry product. In addition, FSIS has proposed to require a 5 log10 reduction of E. coli O157:H7 in fermented products containing beef. .
Some of the procedures suggested for these compliance guidelines achieve both a 7.0 log10 reduction of Salmonella and a 5 log10 reduction of E. coli O157:H7. These are for meat products containing beef. Some of the guidelines meet the requirements only for 5 log10 reduction of E. coli O157:H7. For these processes, establishments have to additionally address the hazards for Salmonella.
Lebanon bologna
Process to achieve a 7-log10 reduction of Salmonella and E. coli O157:H7
Lebanon bologna mix
boneless lean beef – 10% fat
salt – 3.5%
potassium nitrate – 12 ppm
sodium nitrite – 200 ppma) fermentation – 12 hrs at 80°F then 100°F until pH of 4.7 or 5.2 is reached
b) heat – 110°F for 20 hrs; OR,
115°F for 10 hrs; OR,
120°F for 3 hrs
Reference: Ellajosyula, K.E., S. Doores, E.W. Mills. R.A. Wilson, R.C. Anantheswaran, and S.J. Knabel. 1998. Destruction of Escherichia coli O157:H7 and Salmonella typhimurium in Lebanon bologna by interaction of fermentation, pH, heating temperature, and time. J. Food Prot. 61(2):152-7.Dry and Semidry Fermented Sausages
These guidelines are adapted from Blue Ribbon Task Force report “Dry Fermented Sausage and E. coli O157:H7,” May 1996. The report, which is a result of cooperative effort among industry representatives, scientists, manufacturers, and USDA agencies, recommended five options resulting in validated manufacturing processes to ensure that RTE dry and semidry fermented sausages are safe from Escherichia coli O157:H7.
- Processes to achieve a 6.5-log10 reduction of Salmonella and 5-log10 reduction of E. coli O157:H7 (formerly Option 1).
For fermented sausages containing beef or beef and pork, heat according to the following:
Guidelines for Cooked Beef, Roast Beef, and Cooked Corned Beef in Appendix A—Compliance Guidelines for Meeting Lethality Performance Standards for Certain Meat and Poultry Products (FR Vol. 64 No. 3, January 6, 1999)
For fermented sausages containing poultry, heat according to the following:
Guidelines for Cooked Poultry Rolls and Other Cooked Poultry Products in Appendix A—Compliance Guidelines for Meeting Lethality Performance Standards for Certain Meat and Poultry Products (FR Vol. 64 No. 3, January 6, 1999)
- Processes to achieve a 5-log10 reduction or equivalent reduction of E. coli O157:H7 only (does not apply to Salmonella)
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Sorry for the long read!!
I did not how to shorten the read when I was posting it further.
But in any case here is a partial of what I have.
I was simply just trying to give backup to my understanding on the propper :Safe: temps for poultry that I have followed for many years now.Denny O’s-Smokey Bones
I’d rather be sit’in in a boat and thinking about God,
Than sit’n in church and thinking about fish’in! -
Sorry for the long read!!
I did not how to shorten the read when I was posting it further.
But in any case here is a partial of what I have.
I was simply just trying to give backup to my understanding on the propper :Safe: temps for poultry that I have followed for many years now.Denny O good stuff, thx! I have the fsis guidelines appendix A with the tables downloaded on my phone, and end up referencing it quite often. Thx for all the info
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Denny O said in Fall Off Bone BBQ Chicken:
But no matter what the target temperature, if it’s below 165°F, it has to be held at that lower temperature for the required amount of time."
“https://www.smoker-cooking.com/temperature-of-smoked-chicken.html”While I completely agree the process of pasteurization one has to be extremely vigilant to make sure that the target temps are actually held at the specific time required. Most people that I have witnessed just do not have the attention span that is required to monitor their cook that closely, so for the most part I recommend the pasteurization with extreme caution.
mrobisr said in Fall Off Bone BBQ Chicken:
Denny O said in Fall Off Bone BBQ Chicken:
But no matter what the target temperature, if it’s below 165°F, it has to be held at that lower temperature for the required amount of time."
“https://www.smoker-cooking.com/temperature-of-smoked-chicken.html”While I completely agree the process of pasteurization one has to be extremely vigilant to make sure that the target temps are actually held at the specific time required. Most people that I have witnessed just do not have the attention span that is required to monitor their cook that closely, so for the most part I recommend the pasteurization with extreme caution.
I agree, I know there is a newer chart than the one that I showed, I just do not have it in my files.
I learned about this from a man on another website probably 15 years ago or more. He is retired now but was a food inspector if my memory serves me.
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