Breaking Down Deer - Some Basics
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Deepwoodsbutcher well when I knew the chain I was working for was close to going out of business I knew I had to find something else. As a hobby I had tinkered around with working on my own 1911 pistols. So I finally got the nerve up to go into Rock River Arms and ask for job. The owner looked over a couple of my pistols while my knees were shaking. He said I guess I can try you on a trial basis.
He ended up hiring me on full time. Later on he was telling me to grind a relief angle on a sear and not to remove anymore then .030 of an inch. He looked at me and said you have no idea what I’m talking about do you. I said no but if you want me to I’m pretty sure I can cut you a 12 ounce rib eye. It was an experience to go from pounds and ounces to thousands of an inch tolerances.
marzig20 Quite a change. Sounds like you’ve done your share of interesting work.
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marzig20 Quite a change. Sounds like you’ve done your share of interesting work.
Deepwoodsbutcher that was some great information. Thanks for sharing
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Big Ohio doe = 35-40lbs meat. med-Lg buck = 55-60lbs. give or take
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smokinbubba thank you! I think that’s right on the money. I got my neighbor calmed down especially after he told me the doe was 110 pounds.
Went through the 8 lbs. of trim he gave me today. I had to throw out about 12 ounces. The first 4 lb. bag was pretty decent. Some large shoulder and round muscles but the glands were left in. The second 4lb. bag was a different story. Some round and other descent trim. Then I pulled out a piece that had to have been shoulder, that’s where he said he hit it with his arrow. The first thing I noticed was some fur and muscle damage. Flipped it over and there was part of the the wind pipe or throat. I honestly wouldn’t eat any of the ground meat they gave him.
Gonna grind and stuff tomorrow Then smoke the next day. I didn’t realize how close it is to Thanksgiving.
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marzig20 Quite a change. Sounds like you’ve done your share of interesting work.
Deepwoodsbutcher said in Breaking Down Deer - Some Basics:
marzig20 Quite a change. Sounds like you’ve done your share of interesting work.
No complaints, it’s been a good ride. Just wish I was a little younger!
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smokinbubba thank you! I think that’s right on the money. I got my neighbor calmed down especially after he told me the doe was 110 pounds.
Went through the 8 lbs. of trim he gave me today. I had to throw out about 12 ounces. The first 4 lb. bag was pretty decent. Some large shoulder and round muscles but the glands were left in. The second 4lb. bag was a different story. Some round and other descent trim. Then I pulled out a piece that had to have been shoulder, that’s where he said he hit it with his arrow. The first thing I noticed was some fur and muscle damage. Flipped it over and there was part of the the wind pipe or throat. I honestly wouldn’t eat any of the ground meat they gave him.
Gonna grind and stuff tomorrow Then smoke the next day. I didn’t realize how close it is to Thanksgiving.
marzig20 Thanksgiving is coming up fast, going to visit a brother out of state so I don’ t have much prep work to do this year. Does seem strange though not having to prepare.
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Deepwoodsbutcher well when I knew the chain I was working for was close to going out of business I knew I had to find something else. As a hobby I had tinkered around with working on my own 1911 pistols. So I finally got the nerve up to go into Rock River Arms and ask for job. The owner looked over a couple of my pistols while my knees were shaking. He said I guess I can try you on a trial basis.
He ended up hiring me on full time. Later on he was telling me to grind a relief angle on a sear and not to remove anymore then .030 of an inch. He looked at me and said you have no idea what I’m talking about do you. I said no but if you want me to I’m pretty sure I can cut you a 12 ounce rib eye. It was an experience to go from pounds and ounces to thousands of an inch tolerances.
marzig20
Your pistol-smithing job/hobby is something I have been very interested in as well as precision machinery in general. I think working for a company like Rock River would be fascinating.
I have never done much more than install spring kits in Browning HP/ 1911 pistols and hand polish and prep a few guns for others to blue.
When I was in my 30’s I built a custom bolt action on a large ring Mauser action and inlet and finished the stock for it. The part I had to hire out was installing and chambering the barrel and welding a turned down bolt handle to the bolt. I still have the rifle and shoot paper with it. It’s been a few years since I have seriously hunted with it. -
marzig20 Absolutely, turkey and ham on menu.
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processhead it was very interesting. I did quite a bit of machining but I’m certainly not a machinist. I can do a few things on a Bridgeport vertical manual mill. Most of the 1911s I built, and they still build, are oriented mostly toward precision pistol shooters. One handed at 50 and 25 yards. Our target pistols guarantee an accuracy of a 1 -1/2" seven shot group at 50 yards. That doesn’t sound like much to rifle shooters but is extremely hard to achieve in a semi auto pistol.
Chuck hired me because he liked my trigger jobs. Bullseye shooters are the most “rectum oriented”, sorry but the forum censored the other word I used, people you could ever imagine. They’re all looking for any advantage they can find.
If you’ve done polishing work for blueing you know how hard that is to do, it’s truly an art. Especially the flats. The hardest thing to do in polishing, filing and grinding is to keep a flat plane flat. Most people don’t notice flaws but anybody willing to spend $2,000 to $6,000 on a pistol will.
I can assemble an AR-15 in 45 minutes. But a precision 1911 takes days if not longer, depending on the build order. I did inspection in shipping and packing for the ARs for several years because Chuck knew my attention to detail and trusted me. Oh, and AR does not stand for automatic rifle, it is the name Armalite Rifle for the company that invented the M-16.
Every year we would go out to the CMP and NRA national matches at Camp Perry in Ohio. We did a lot of smithing and sales on vendors row. Camp Perry was a base where German and Italian POWS were held until the end of the war. Venders row was actually the mess halls that the POWs ate their meals. We slept in our building and used one of the two adjoining heads to bathe etc. Chuck would bring up whole boneless rib eyes and strips for us to cook and eat in the evenings. Guess who was tasked to cut them up.
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Big Ohio doe = 35-40lbs meat. med-Lg buck = 55-60lbs. give or take
smokinbubba I don’t think people realize the actual weight after processing. Are you going out next week?
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processhead it was very interesting. I did quite a bit of machining but I’m certainly not a machinist. I can do a few things on a Bridgeport vertical manual mill. Most of the 1911s I built, and they still build, are oriented mostly toward precision pistol shooters. One handed at 50 and 25 yards. Our target pistols guarantee an accuracy of a 1 -1/2" seven shot group at 50 yards. That doesn’t sound like much to rifle shooters but is extremely hard to achieve in a semi auto pistol.
Chuck hired me because he liked my trigger jobs. Bullseye shooters are the most “rectum oriented”, sorry but the forum censored the other word I used, people you could ever imagine. They’re all looking for any advantage they can find.
If you’ve done polishing work for blueing you know how hard that is to do, it’s truly an art. Especially the flats. The hardest thing to do in polishing, filing and grinding is to keep a flat plane flat. Most people don’t notice flaws but anybody willing to spend $2,000 to $6,000 on a pistol will.
I can assemble an AR-15 in 45 minutes. But a precision 1911 takes days if not longer, depending on the build order. I did inspection in shipping and packing for the ARs for several years because Chuck knew my attention to detail and trusted me. Oh, and AR does not stand for automatic rifle, it is the name Armalite Rifle for the company that invented the M-16.
Every year we would go out to the CMP and NRA national matches at Camp Perry in Ohio. We did a lot of smithing and sales on vendors row. Camp Perry was a base where German and Italian POWS were held until the end of the war. Venders row was actually the mess halls that the POWs ate their meals. We slept in our building and used one of the two adjoining heads to bathe etc. Chuck would bring up whole boneless rib eyes and strips for us to cook and eat in the evenings. Guess who was tasked to cut them up.
marzig20 1 to 11/2 inch group is a difficult thing to accomplish. I was one of the bullseye shooters, but was never good enough to outshoot my pistols. I went through several armorer schools for law enforcement. S&W, Colt, Glock, Remington. Now most weapons are drop in part repairs instead of hand fitting. So a good hand fitted and tuned handgun is a dieing skill.
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processhead it was very interesting. I did quite a bit of machining but I’m certainly not a machinist. I can do a few things on a Bridgeport vertical manual mill. Most of the 1911s I built, and they still build, are oriented mostly toward precision pistol shooters. One handed at 50 and 25 yards. Our target pistols guarantee an accuracy of a 1 -1/2" seven shot group at 50 yards. That doesn’t sound like much to rifle shooters but is extremely hard to achieve in a semi auto pistol.
Chuck hired me because he liked my trigger jobs. Bullseye shooters are the most “rectum oriented”, sorry but the forum censored the other word I used, people you could ever imagine. They’re all looking for any advantage they can find.
If you’ve done polishing work for blueing you know how hard that is to do, it’s truly an art. Especially the flats. The hardest thing to do in polishing, filing and grinding is to keep a flat plane flat. Most people don’t notice flaws but anybody willing to spend $2,000 to $6,000 on a pistol will.
I can assemble an AR-15 in 45 minutes. But a precision 1911 takes days if not longer, depending on the build order. I did inspection in shipping and packing for the ARs for several years because Chuck knew my attention to detail and trusted me. Oh, and AR does not stand for automatic rifle, it is the name Armalite Rifle for the company that invented the M-16.
Every year we would go out to the CMP and NRA national matches at Camp Perry in Ohio. We did a lot of smithing and sales on vendors row. Camp Perry was a base where German and Italian POWS were held until the end of the war. Venders row was actually the mess halls that the POWs ate their meals. We slept in our building and used one of the two adjoining heads to bathe etc. Chuck would bring up whole boneless rib eyes and strips for us to cook and eat in the evenings. Guess who was tasked to cut them up.
marzig20 I wish I could shoot even close to that level with my handguns.
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marzig20 1 to 11/2 inch group is a difficult thing to accomplish. I was one of the bullseye shooters, but was never good enough to outshoot my pistols. I went through several armorer schools for law enforcement. S&W, Colt, Glock, Remington. Now most weapons are drop in part repairs instead of hand fitting. So a good hand fitted and tuned handgun is a dieing skill.
Ken1261 said in Breaking Down Deer - Some Basics:
marzig20 1 to 11/2 inch group is a difficult thing to accomplish. I was one of the bullseye shooters, but was never good enough to outshoot my pistols. I went through several armorer schools for law enforcement. S&W, Colt, Glock, Remington. Now most weapons are drop in part repairs instead of hand fitting. So a good hand fitted and tuned handgun is a dieing skill.
Did you ever make it out to Perry? I didn’t have the patience for it myself. It’s a dying sport too. All the young shooters want the excitement of the action shooting sports.
Sadly they don’t realize how much it will improve their shooting ability. It’s back to the basics. Front sight focus and trigger control. The new shooters on the military teams don’t get optics until their average is above a certain level.
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Ken1261 said in Breaking Down Deer - Some Basics:
marzig20 1 to 11/2 inch group is a difficult thing to accomplish. I was one of the bullseye shooters, but was never good enough to outshoot my pistols. I went through several armorer schools for law enforcement. S&W, Colt, Glock, Remington. Now most weapons are drop in part repairs instead of hand fitting. So a good hand fitted and tuned handgun is a dieing skill.
Did you ever make it out to Perry? I didn’t have the patience for it myself. It’s a dying sport too. All the young shooters want the excitement of the action shooting sports.
Sadly they don’t realize how much it will improve their shooting ability. It’s back to the basics. Front sight focus and trigger control. The new shooters on the military teams don’t get optics until their average is above a certain level.
marzig20 No never did, looking back wish I had. Have several friends that have and still do. It’s quite the accomplishment to win your classification in NRA bullseye. I have worked NRA matches in Jacksonville, FL. and watched Competitors get mad because they just shot a 9 instead of a 10 at 50 yrds slow fire.
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marzig20 No never did, looking back wish I had. Have several friends that have and still do. It’s quite the accomplishment to win your classification in NRA bullseye. I have worked NRA matches in Jacksonville, FL. and watched Competitors get mad because they just shot a 9 instead of a 10 at 50 yrds slow fire.
Ken1261 said in Breaking Down Deer - Some Basics:
marzig20 No never did, looking back wish I had. Have several friends that have and still do. It’s quite the accomplishment to win your classification in NRA bullseye. I have worked NRA matches in Jacksonville, FL. and watched Competitors get mad because they just shot a 9 instead of a 10 at 50 yrds slow fire.
All very true!
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marzig20 Ken1261 The move to CNC manufacturing in the firearms industry has reduced most of the need for skilled hand fitting during assembly on many production guns.
Factory guns are built with tolerances that are tight enough to give some remarkable accuracy right out of the box.
Of course the best match guns will probably always need someone skilled to do the final fitting and do QA, just like marzig20 was doing for RR.Paul
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marzig20 Ken1261 The move to CNC manufacturing in the firearms industry has reduced most of the need for skilled hand fitting during assembly on many production guns.
Factory guns are built with tolerances that are tight enough to give some remarkable accuracy right out of the box.
Of course the best match guns will probably always need someone skilled to do the final fitting and do QA, just like marzig20 was doing for RR.processhead said in Breaking Down Deer - Some Basics:
marzig20 Ken1261 The move to CNC manufacturing in the firearms industry has reduced most of the need for skilled hand fitting during assembly many guns.
Many factory guns are built with tolerances that are tight enough to give some remarkable accuracy right out of the box.
Of course the best match guns will probably always need someone skilled to do the final fitting and do QA, just like marzig20 was doing for RR.The cost of a large CNC machining center is very high, as much as a million dollars or more. RRA has several machine shops that do this for them. Chuck has purchased and owns several machines for one small local shop because they simply couldn’t afford to buy them themselves. In order to be profitable and get a faster return on investment, these machines need to be run for at least two shifts a day.
The tolerances they are capable of is incredible. But you have to have a good engineer, a good computer design person and good machinists to program, do the setups and run these machines.
Then you have to have good shops to provide the raw forgings for receivers and other critical parts. It’s a dance or a ballet for everything to come together but the results are amazing.
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processhead said in Breaking Down Deer - Some Basics:
marzig20 Ken1261 The move to CNC manufacturing in the firearms industry has reduced most of the need for skilled hand fitting during assembly many guns.
Many factory guns are built with tolerances that are tight enough to give some remarkable accuracy right out of the box.
Of course the best match guns will probably always need someone skilled to do the final fitting and do QA, just like marzig20 was doing for RR.The cost of a large CNC machining center is very high, as much as a million dollars or more. RRA has several machine shops that do this for them. Chuck has purchased and owns several machines for one small local shop because they simply couldn’t afford to buy them themselves. In order to be profitable and get a faster return on investment, these machines need to be run for at least two shifts a day.
The tolerances they are capable of is incredible. But you have to have a good engineer, a good computer design person and good machinists to program, do the setups and run these machines.
Then you have to have good shops to provide the raw forgings for receivers and other critical parts. It’s a dance or a ballet for everything to come together but the results are amazing.
marzig20
The interdependencies and specialization that goes into manufacturing of almost everything these days is pretty amazing. No wonder breaks in the supply chain can be so tough on manufacturers.Paul
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marzig20
The interdependencies and specialization that goes into manufacturing of almost everything these days is pretty amazing. No wonder breaks in the supply chain can be so tough on manufacturers.processhead I remember at trade shows different people would say, so you don’t actually make all of the parts you assemble your firearms with. I would think to myself, so I guess we would actually have to go out and mine the ore and smelt the metal out to make you happy.
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