Snack Stick - Cure time w/ or w/o ECA and Cure taste
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Hello- new here and new to making snack sticks. This forum has been great and the Meatgistic videos are very helpful.
As a rookie snack stick maker I have a couple questions.
When making snack sticks everything I’ve read is to hold overnight if just using SureCure but I can go straight to the smoker if I use SureCure w/ ECA.
My first question. What if I add ECA but not at the ratio on the package. I wanted some tang but not as much as it had at full ratio (basically cut it in half, 1oz for 12lbs) - do I need to hold it overnight still?
Second question. In the few batches I’ve made, if I taste them right after coming out of the ice bath before vac sealing I get some of that cure taste (tastes like the pink salt smells). I vac seal and try them the next day and that cure taste is gone. Is that normal? After a day in the fridge the sticks taste fantastic, just seems odd that it’d still have that faint taste initially but gone later on.
I’ve made 3 batches trying different things and they’ve all been really, really good. I just want to make sure I’m doing it correctly, ultimately making a safe product.
Any advice or feedback would be great.
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sneaky87
Out of curiosity, why are you ice bathing snack sticks?
ECA is a preference according to your taste.
The acid also adds to shelf life/stability.Salty said in Snack Stick - Cure time w/ or w/o ECA and Cure taste:
sneaky87
Out of curiosity, why are you ice bathing snack sticks?
ECA is a preference according to your taste.
The acid also adds to shelf life/stability.The recipe on Waltons here (pheasant sticks) says to do the ice bath.
I understand the ECA is added to taste, my question is if 2oz for 12lbs meat allows me to go straight to the smoker. What if I add 1oz or so - can I theoretically still go straight to the smoker? Or because I have less ECA added, it would be slower to accelerate the cure time?
I’m probably overthinking it but figured I’d ask.
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Salty said in Snack Stick - Cure time w/ or w/o ECA and Cure taste:
sneaky87
Out of curiosity, why are you ice bathing snack sticks?
ECA is a preference according to your taste.
The acid also adds to shelf life/stability.The recipe on Waltons here (pheasant sticks) says to do the ice bath.
I understand the ECA is added to taste, my question is if 2oz for 12lbs meat allows me to go straight to the smoker. What if I add 1oz or so - can I theoretically still go straight to the smoker? Or because I have less ECA added, it would be slower to accelerate the cure time?
I’m probably overthinking it but figured I’d ask.
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ECA melts at 135F. I myself would not worry about using 1/2 the stated amount.
Just be shure to keep your lower temps on schedule
The only concern I see would be storage after smoking, Refrigerated or Vac Pack no problem. -
ECA melts at 135F. I myself would not worry about using 1/2 the stated amount.
Just be shure to keep your lower temps on schedule
The only concern I see would be storage after smoking, Refrigerated or Vac Pack no problem.glen said in Snack Stick - Cure time w/ or w/o ECA and Cure taste:
ECA melts at 135F. I myself would not worry about using 1/2 the stated amount.
Just be shure to keep your lower temps on schedule
The only concern I see would be storage after smoking, Refrigerated or Vac Pack no problem.Got it - Yep, dried off, vac packed, and into the freezer.
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glen said in Snack Stick - Cure time w/ or w/o ECA and Cure taste:
ECA melts at 135F. I myself would not worry about using 1/2 the stated amount.
Just be shure to keep your lower temps on schedule
The only concern I see would be storage after smoking, Refrigerated or Vac Pack no problem.Got it - Yep, dried off, vac packed, and into the freezer.
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sneaky87
Out of curiosity, why are you ice bathing snack sticks?
ECA is a preference according to your taste.
The acid also adds to shelf life/stability.Salty ice bathing is kind of a unique result. For snack sticks it helps the collagen casing tighten up and bind to the meat so it doesnt slip off while taking a bite. For the summer sausage it is kind of the opposite, the casing should remain tight to the meat but easily peels off and should leave the meat intact not pulling the meat with it
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sneaky87 The minimum for cure acceleration is 3 oz to 25 lb of meat. You might be able to get away with a little less but probably not 2 oz. Tastes tend to develop over the next few days, often they intensify heat and flavor but I don’t normally notice a difference in the cure taste after a few days, maybe I just haven’t been looking/tasting for it>
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What if he used 1/2 eca and 1/2 smoked meat stabilizer??? I would think that would give him half the tang and all the acceleration of cure.
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smokinbubba I’d imagine that would work. Smoked meat stabilizer is just Dextrose, Salt, Ascorbic Acid (6.24%), Sodium Citrate (3.12%) so I don’t think anything would work against you there. However, I am going to see if Austin has a different idea.
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smokinbubba I do not see any issue with that. As long as you are inside the limits of usage on each, using a combo should not hurt.
sneaky87 If you are adding ECA, don’t hold the product. It’s not worth the risk of breaking the encapsulation and affecting your sausage. -
Great! now I have another experiment to do! I dont like the harsh tang that ECA gives but if I cut it 50% that may work for my taste. My waltons order is growing as we speak… Dont have any ECA.
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Salty ice bathing is kind of a unique result. For snack sticks it helps the collagen casing tighten up and bind to the meat so it doesnt slip off while taking a bite. For the summer sausage it is kind of the opposite, the casing should remain tight to the meat but easily peels off and should leave the meat intact not pulling the meat with it
twilliams said in Snack Stick - Cure time w/ or w/o ECA and Cure taste:
Salty ice bathing is kind of a unique result. For snack sticks it helps the collagen casing tighten up and bind to the meat so it doesnt slip off while taking a bite. For the summer sausage it is kind of the opposite, the casing should remain tight to the meat but easily peels off and should leave the meat intact not pulling the meat with it
So regarding an Ice Bath, I wonder if anyone has done some experimenting to see how much it does change the casing on snack sticks? I’ve done the bath part now, but I’m very inexperienced with snack sticks and casings in general.
I suppose there’s been some digging into the effects of ice bathing just because of the nature of this group of people.
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twilliams said in Snack Stick - Cure time w/ or w/o ECA and Cure taste:
Salty ice bathing is kind of a unique result. For snack sticks it helps the collagen casing tighten up and bind to the meat so it doesnt slip off while taking a bite. For the summer sausage it is kind of the opposite, the casing should remain tight to the meat but easily peels off and should leave the meat intact not pulling the meat with it
So regarding an Ice Bath, I wonder if anyone has done some experimenting to see how much it does change the casing on snack sticks? I’ve done the bath part now, but I’m very inexperienced with snack sticks and casings in general.
I suppose there’s been some digging into the effects of ice bathing just because of the nature of this group of people.
Elsos part of ice bath chilling is to stop the cooking process as quickly as you can. It is part of the thermal dynamics of cooking. If you ever pulled a roast out of the oven at a set internal temp and left the probe in you would see that it will continue to cook, usually 5-7°. You chance overcooking, fatting out etc… Hanging afterwards will allow the sausage to bloom, dry and allow the casing to react to what is happening with the sausage. You don’t have to ice bath, but you may want to experiment with a batch and try both ways and eval your results. Keep notes to see what your preferences are.
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Elsos What YooperDog says is dead on and one more thing. It helps “set” the collagen casing to the meat, lowering the chances that it separates from the meat. Ironically (or maybe not, I dont always use that word correctly) when you are using fibrous casings the ice bath helps separate the casing from the meat, if you dont do a cold enough bath/shower the meat will stick to that casing.
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I’ve always said sausage making is part science and part magic
If the women don’t find you handsome, they should at least find you handy - Red Green
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I’ve always said sausage making is part science and part magic
smokinbubba said in Snack Stick - Cure time w/ or w/o ECA and Cure taste:
I’ve always said sausage making is part science and part magic
Consider how it was 300 years ago. Before the scientific method, ALL sausage making was magic. Brewing of beer was much the same. No one knew HOW it all worked, they just new it worked.
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if you want to go back farther the pharos from the middle east distilled spirits
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