Snack Stick Help
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I have a bunch of liquid and or fat inside of my venison snack sticks…I started at a low temp (around 115) I mixed the meat better this time, what am I doing wrong?
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I do a 70/30 mix and I did a 5lb batch. I used a quarter cup of water per pound. I am using the high mountain snack stick kit.
AK Meats I will try to help you here, your 70/30 mix, I’m assuming is straight beef?
Are you trying to make this for a business to sell to public consumers?
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AK Meats I will try to help you here, your 70/30 mix, I’m assuming is straight beef?
Are you trying to make this for a business to sell to public consumers?
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twilliams just trying to make it edible…70 venison and 30 pork fat
Is it possible to mix the meat to much?
AK Meats it is possible but it would take an awful lot of mixing. I dont believe that is your problem at my first thought. Here is my first thoughts and opinions.
…your mix is too fatty, i would not do more than 75/25 venison/pork fat. My recommendation is adding pork trim and cutting back on pork fat. If i was doing a 5lb batch i would go 3lb lean venison, 1.5 pork trim, and .5 pork fat.
…lack of protien extraction( not sticky)
…meat not cold enough while mixing( mixed too long)
…smoke/cook schedule increase in temperature too quick resulting in fat out. I know you said you started low but what was the rest of the cook? Here is what i like for a schedule.110° for 1 hour dampers wide open (drying stage) no smoke
125° for 2 hours damper closed to 1/3 open bottom, and top closed to only an 1/8th open on top. Start smoke
140° for 1 hour, continuing smoke
155° for 2 hours, remove smoke pan after 1st hour of this sequence.
170° til Internal meat temperature reaches 160° followed by immediate ice bath for 15 minutes.
Set out to dry on paper towels for 1 hour in cool place.
Move to refrigerate over night.
Cut to lenght and vac seal next day -
AK Meats it is possible but it would take an awful lot of mixing. I dont believe that is your problem at my first thought. Here is my first thoughts and opinions.
…your mix is too fatty, i would not do more than 75/25 venison/pork fat. My recommendation is adding pork trim and cutting back on pork fat. If i was doing a 5lb batch i would go 3lb lean venison, 1.5 pork trim, and .5 pork fat.
…lack of protien extraction( not sticky)
…meat not cold enough while mixing( mixed too long)
…smoke/cook schedule increase in temperature too quick resulting in fat out. I know you said you started low but what was the rest of the cook? Here is what i like for a schedule.110° for 1 hour dampers wide open (drying stage) no smoke
125° for 2 hours damper closed to 1/3 open bottom, and top closed to only an 1/8th open on top. Start smoke
140° for 1 hour, continuing smoke
155° for 2 hours, remove smoke pan after 1st hour of this sequence.
170° til Internal meat temperature reaches 160° followed by immediate ice bath for 15 minutes.
Set out to dry on paper towels for 1 hour in cool place.
Move to refrigerate over night.
Cut to lenght and vac seal next daytwilliams I used to have someone do them for me and I gave him the 70/30 mix…I did 115 for an hour and a half, then gradually did 10- 15 degree increase for an hour at a time until they reached an internal temp of 157
It’s definitely a type of fat out…I will try the 75/25 and maybe less water??
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AK Meats it is possible but it would take an awful lot of mixing. I dont believe that is your problem at my first thought. Here is my first thoughts and opinions.
…your mix is too fatty, i would not do more than 75/25 venison/pork fat. My recommendation is adding pork trim and cutting back on pork fat. If i was doing a 5lb batch i would go 3lb lean venison, 1.5 pork trim, and .5 pork fat.
…lack of protien extraction( not sticky)
…meat not cold enough while mixing( mixed too long)
…smoke/cook schedule increase in temperature too quick resulting in fat out. I know you said you started low but what was the rest of the cook? Here is what i like for a schedule.110° for 1 hour dampers wide open (drying stage) no smoke
125° for 2 hours damper closed to 1/3 open bottom, and top closed to only an 1/8th open on top. Start smoke
140° for 1 hour, continuing smoke
155° for 2 hours, remove smoke pan after 1st hour of this sequence.
170° til Internal meat temperature reaches 160° followed by immediate ice bath for 15 minutes.
Set out to dry on paper towels for 1 hour in cool place.
Move to refrigerate over night.
Cut to lenght and vac seal next day -
twilliams I think the second stage I might do longer…maybe I am upping the temp to fast in the second stage
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twilliams I think the second stage I might do longer…maybe I am upping the temp to fast in the second stage
AK Meats i think your water usage is fine. Waltons recommends 1 1/2 qts for 25 lbs which is 48oz. Which is 9.6oz for 5lbs. and you used 10oz. I personally use 64oz (2qts for 25lbs of meat).
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YooperDog thanks for the tip…definitely going to do less fat in the future and see what happens…might have to make breakfast sausage with the rest I already have ground up
AK Meats so worst case scenrio lets use 15° increases.
115° for 1 1/2 hours
130° for 1 hour
145° for 1 hour
160° for 1 hour
175° for ?
Did you go above 175°?
In my opinion it is pushing it but Waltons smoke/cook schedule isnt far off from this, i would have to look again at what they recommend although i think they push it a bit fast but it must work for them so why change. -
AK Meats so worst case scenrio lets use 15° increases.
115° for 1 1/2 hours
130° for 1 hour
145° for 1 hour
160° for 1 hour
175° for ?
Did you go above 175°?
In my opinion it is pushing it but Waltons smoke/cook schedule isnt far off from this, i would have to look again at what they recommend although i think they push it a bit fast but it must work for them so why change. -
AK Meats if you want to keep that schedule id say move the 115° to 1 hour.
Then 125 for 1 1/2 hours
Then 140 for 1 1/2 hours
Then 155 for 1 hour
Then 170 til IT of 157°The sure gel binder may help you reduce the fat out as well as adjusting smoke schedule and meat ratio.
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AK Meats another thing i will add is, is your smoker temps true to the reading on your gauge? Perhaps your cabin temp is hotter than what the display is reading. Maybe add a second temporary ambient temp probe to verify consistency. Hope all my info helps atleast a little bit.
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I have a bunch of liquid and or fat inside of my venison snack sticks…I started at a low temp (around 115) I mixed the meat better this time, what am I doing wrong?
AK Meats i agree with the advice you have been given so far. However, i think it is possible to keep your 70/30 ratio if you can get adequate protein extraction. I am assuming you are hand mixing since your batch size is only 5 lbs. I dont know how many times you ran your mix through a grinder. I have seen people do this up to 4 times, freezing in between grinds and adding ice to keep the mixture cold. I also recommend using a binder if you arent already. If you can get good protein extraction, your room for error on your cook schedule is larger, so you wont have to obsess about it as much. I would learn every trick that you can about getting good protein extraction. Once you get that figured out, everything else in the process goes a lot better.
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AK Meats i agree with the advice you have been given so far. However, i think it is possible to keep your 70/30 ratio if you can get adequate protein extraction. I am assuming you are hand mixing since your batch size is only 5 lbs. I dont know how many times you ran your mix through a grinder. I have seen people do this up to 4 times, freezing in between grinds and adding ice to keep the mixture cold. I also recommend using a binder if you arent already. If you can get good protein extraction, your room for error on your cook schedule is larger, so you wont have to obsess about it as much. I would learn every trick that you can about getting good protein extraction. Once you get that figured out, everything else in the process goes a lot better.
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IVERYAN sweet thanks for the tip!!! I used my kitchen aid to mix it…I think I could have mixed it more to get that protein extraction…and do you have any suggestions for a binder??
AK Meats alot of folks on here use sure gel. I have had good luck with soy protein. Carrot fiber is also an option. If you dont have any of that, I have used powdered milk in a pinch when I was out of the other stuff
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AK Meats I would use sure gel for a binder. It is milk based & contains phosphates to help with the binding. Protein extraction can be more difficult with wild game than beef or pork. It is just one more tool to make the process easier. As far as mixing goes, I would add all spices & additives to your meat 1st. Make sure your water mixed with plenty of crushed ice so it is as cold as possible. I would try not to add all the water at once. Try to add it slowly throughout the process to keep your meat from getting warm. This will allow you to mix your meat longer which will improve protein extraction & binding.
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Sure Gel… Game changer! Now use with all snack sticks and summer sausage.
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What equipment are you using to cook your sticks? Some smokers used for barbequing/grilling can be difficult to maintain at low temperatures needed for products like sticks.
Your fat out problem sounds like a classic case of finishing at too high of temperature.
Check what ever you are using to monitor the cook temps against a known-to-be- accurate thermometer.
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